Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Min-Max Problem: Solved
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Nagol" data-source="post: 7477641" data-attributes="member: 23935"><p>They may be pass/fail; they may not. It depends on what I'm trying to avoid. In one <em>Fantasy Hero</em> game, I was playing a thief and I wanted to concentrate on heavy-planning big scores and not worry about fiddly little things like whether I could open a door so I bought my Lockpicking skill up to 23 or less on 3d6. Even with a heavy penalty, I should still auto-succeed. There's an example of pass-fail. In the end, this attempt boomeranged because the GM saw how much I invested in the skill and assumed therefore I wanted to exercise it a lot and suddenly everywhere the character went there were <em><strong>really impressive</strong></em> locks on everything.</p><p></p><p>In a Cyberpunk game, I was trying to avoid the Decker mini-game so I dumped a lot into powerful autonomous intrusion programs to limit the time spent and my participation in the minigame. The optimization worked; we spent very little time on the mini-game throughout the campaign, but we still had some of the information advantages the mini-game could offer.</p><p></p><p>Just because <em>I</em> find the tasks undesirable doesn't mean the group will want to forgo them. The best way to handle such tasks is to overwhelm them. The second best way is to sidestep them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The player's job is to have fun while providing fun for the other participants. Depending on the game engine, genre, and expectations, working to keep your character alive can be fun. The best a game designer can do to make certain the game expectations match the mechanics in place and that those expectations are clearly articulated to the audience.</p><p></p><p>If I'm playing in a game where the expectation is risk of death/retirement is very real <em>and I decide I want to be one of the last standing</em>, I'll spend time working out how I can arrange that. If the GM undercuts that risk without changing the expectation then he just robbed me. The worst example I have for this was another Hero Games campaign. It was sold as a Traveler-esque science investigators with a ship. I built an inexperienced highly curious teenager (extra Body, some armour, other specialty defences, inherent Regeneration...) and made him very survivable because I wanted to keep playing the character shoving his nose in the most wildly inappropriate places and learning things. The character was destroyed anyway when the campaign turned out to be a bait-and-switch and his universe was erased while he was still inside it.</p><p></p><p>I am unsure how you converted (paraphrasing) "I want to have a modicum of solo capability in case I need to take actions without the group" into "suppressed bloodlust". The solo capability could at least as easily be covert or non-aggressive as much as it could be combative.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nagol, post: 7477641, member: 23935"] They may be pass/fail; they may not. It depends on what I'm trying to avoid. In one [I]Fantasy Hero[/I] game, I was playing a thief and I wanted to concentrate on heavy-planning big scores and not worry about fiddly little things like whether I could open a door so I bought my Lockpicking skill up to 23 or less on 3d6. Even with a heavy penalty, I should still auto-succeed. There's an example of pass-fail. In the end, this attempt boomeranged because the GM saw how much I invested in the skill and assumed therefore I wanted to exercise it a lot and suddenly everywhere the character went there were [I][B]really impressive[/B][/I] locks on everything. In a Cyberpunk game, I was trying to avoid the Decker mini-game so I dumped a lot into powerful autonomous intrusion programs to limit the time spent and my participation in the minigame. The optimization worked; we spent very little time on the mini-game throughout the campaign, but we still had some of the information advantages the mini-game could offer. Just because [I]I[/I] find the tasks undesirable doesn't mean the group will want to forgo them. The best way to handle such tasks is to overwhelm them. The second best way is to sidestep them. The player's job is to have fun while providing fun for the other participants. Depending on the game engine, genre, and expectations, working to keep your character alive can be fun. The best a game designer can do to make certain the game expectations match the mechanics in place and that those expectations are clearly articulated to the audience. If I'm playing in a game where the expectation is risk of death/retirement is very real [I]and I decide I want to be one of the last standing[/I], I'll spend time working out how I can arrange that. If the GM undercuts that risk without changing the expectation then he just robbed me. The worst example I have for this was another Hero Games campaign. It was sold as a Traveler-esque science investigators with a ship. I built an inexperienced highly curious teenager (extra Body, some armour, other specialty defences, inherent Regeneration...) and made him very survivable because I wanted to keep playing the character shoving his nose in the most wildly inappropriate places and learning things. The character was destroyed anyway when the campaign turned out to be a bait-and-switch and his universe was erased while he was still inside it. I am unsure how you converted (paraphrasing) "I want to have a modicum of solo capability in case I need to take actions without the group" into "suppressed bloodlust". The solo capability could at least as easily be covert or non-aggressive as much as it could be combative. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Min-Max Problem: Solved
Top