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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7483349" data-attributes="member: 4937">The issue is that the sort of people that were worried about this had a very narrow definition of story.&nbsp; To them 'story' was something character driven, personal, and compulsory in the sense that failing the story had some dramatic consequence.&nbsp; In that sense, there was only one story, the one that we were telling.&nbsp; You mention adventure paths, but it isn't just published adventure paths that are going to have this structure. It's everyone that imagines and prepares for the game in the same way, either because the AP is trying to achieve the same thing that they want to achieve or because the AP has served as the only model of play that they've encountered and they are just replicating the procedures of play that they know.&nbsp; Many a novice GM has run their own game with narrower choke points than you find in an adventure path.Personality.&nbsp; Personal skill.&nbsp; You haven't actually overturned the idea that they share a similar or identical aesthetic of play.&nbsp;&nbsp; All you've really said, and I agree mind you, is that if optimizing doesn't actually lead to social dysfunction of some sort, then it's not a problem.&nbsp; I've said before that as a GM I prefer to have at least one powergamer in the party, because a powergamer can assist the other players in their goals if he does it right by ensuring party continuity and that the story goes on.&nbsp;&nbsp; Not dying and being able to overcome obstacles is something that Thespian in the party usually wants to do as well, if not necessarily for identical reasons.&nbsp; Which is not to say that the Thespian necessarily lacks system mastery, but if you're a real Thespian you'd rather run a character that is less than optimized if you think that it fits the character and background you've imagined.Sometime search Enworld for &quot;Rowboat World&quot; for a discussion of what I'm thinking of.That's pretty much exactly what I'm talking about.&nbsp; At one time I naïvely thought that personality of the PC wasn't really something a DM ought to have any say over and I freely let players introduce pretty much any character that they wanted to play.&nbsp; What changed my mind was a group that introduced PCs with primary motivations of safety and misanthropy who just wanted to hide and be left alone.&nbsp;&nbsp; That might be a valid character, but it doesn't make for a functional player character in a social game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7483349, member: 4937"] The issue is that the sort of people that were worried about this had a very narrow definition of story. To them 'story' was something character driven, personal, and compulsory in the sense that failing the story had some dramatic consequence. In that sense, there was only one story, the one that we were telling. You mention adventure paths, but it isn't just published adventure paths that are going to have this structure. It's everyone that imagines and prepares for the game in the same way, either because the AP is trying to achieve the same thing that they want to achieve or because the AP has served as the only model of play that they've encountered and they are just replicating the procedures of play that they know. Many a novice GM has run their own game with narrower choke points than you find in an adventure path. Personality. Personal skill. You haven't actually overturned the idea that they share a similar or identical aesthetic of play. All you've really said, and I agree mind you, is that if optimizing doesn't actually lead to social dysfunction of some sort, then it's not a problem. I've said before that as a GM I prefer to have at least one powergamer in the party, because a powergamer can assist the other players in their goals if he does it right by ensuring party continuity and that the story goes on. Not dying and being able to overcome obstacles is something that Thespian in the party usually wants to do as well, if not necessarily for identical reasons. Which is not to say that the Thespian necessarily lacks system mastery, but if you're a real Thespian you'd rather run a character that is less than optimized if you think that it fits the character and background you've imagined. Sometime search Enworld for "Rowboat World" for a discussion of what I'm thinking of. That's pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. At one time I naïvely thought that personality of the PC wasn't really something a DM ought to have any say over and I freely let players introduce pretty much any character that they wanted to play. What changed my mind was a group that introduced PCs with primary motivations of safety and misanthropy who just wanted to hide and be left alone. That might be a valid character, but it doesn't make for a functional player character in a social game. [/QUOTE]

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