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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack7" data-source="post: 5780874" data-attributes="member: 54707"> I'd agree if that were the case with clerics. If  they were used to "prove" (as in the judicial sense) what the gods want. But I  don't think that should be their real function, or that that should be the point  of faith in-game.     Last night though I had some other ideas. This morning  actually, as I couldn't sleep much, and arose early - insomnia and  all.   I was reading some of the early Church fathers  before bed (I'm studying to be a Priest) and some things occurred to me that I  thought would be of use in making Clerics men and women of Wonder, rather than  of magic.   So I split clerical Abilities into three broad  categories. I'm going to use basic English terms rather than Latin or Greek or  some other language so as to avoid confusion.   Rites and Rituals - this could be  a lot like 4E rituals with rites being more religious in nature and designed to  augment faith, rather than rites being wonders in themselves. Though it would  depend very much on what the rite involved, and Rituals (a different kind of  rite) could definitely be Wondrous, again it would depend upon the nature of the  Ritual.   Wonders - this would be what  people normally think of as Clerical spells and abilities and  powers. They would be those powers and wonders  granted the cleric and that he would have some measure of control over himself.     Miracles - these would be  superlative and grand Wonders, well beyond those normally associated with lesser  clerics. These would be more like Saintly order events of Divine origin. Though  clerics of any level could possibly still evoke them under special  circumstances. They just couldn't control them.   These three things would work at varying levels of  effectiveness or scale, and would imply different levels of control on the part  of the Cleric. For instance a Rite might be both a real and ritual cleansing to  prevent or suppress the spread of disease. A whole church or community might  undergo such a rite with the cleric leading the rite.   A Wonder might be anything from when a cleric  cures minor wounds on an individual all the way up to curing a curse (say  Lycanthropy) upon a single individual, upon a small group of people, or in a  small area.   A Miracle would be grand in scale and/or scope and  might involve the total conversion of a group of men from murderous cutthroats  to honorable and peaceful men, or might involve curing an entire city or nation  of a devastating plague.    As for control, the cleric would have almost  complete and personal control over most rites and rituals. The cleric would have  partial, maybe even up to majority control over his or her Wonders (though Deity  would exercise some measure of control), and as for Miracles, the cleric or  Saint would be a conduit, but would have little if any direct control over what  actually occurs. With Miracles the cleric could have intentions for this or that  to happen, but what actually happened would be out of his or her control. Except  in very special circumstances.   These examples are tied to healing or curing,  because they give easy examples for the Cleric, but could just as easily be  applied to other types of Rites, Wonders, and Miracles.   Another thing I thought of involved  "flock and followers." Rather than the just have the  cleric affect his flock and followers, I thought it should also be apparent with  the Cleric (as opposed to the Magic-user) that the flock and follower affect the  Cleric. For instance if the Cleric is performing a Rite and there are a large  number of followers, the odds increase that the rite will be effective, or more  effective than normal.   If a cleric is operating in a party and the party  has several members that worship the same gods or God, and/or several members of  the party have great faith in the cleric himself, then when a cleric performs a  Wonder this "flock faith" (perhaps expressed as a function of group-will) might  increase the effectiveness of the Wonder or maybe even transform the Wonder  performed into a greater, more impressive, or more important  Wonder.   The same would apply to Miracles of course. The  faith of the flock, friends, comrades, and followers might very well act as a  "magnifying lens" that amplifies or even changes the focus of the rite, wonder,  or miracle.   The last things I thought of involved Clerical  animals, and relics and tokens, and rod and staff. There  are many stories of the Saints for instance having miraculous or unusual animal  companions. One of the most famous being Saint Francis and his wolf. Clerics and  Saints would have companion animals (unlike Druids, Clerics would not  necessarily be good with all/many animals, just perhaps one species or breed or  just one particular animal) that would help to focus their powers of  Wonder-Working, perhaps by showing kindness to the animal or perhaps the  companion animal is a focus of Virtue or of some special spiritual gift or  charisma that the cleric can use to real advantage.   Relics and tokens would also be points of the  focus of spiritual gifts or of augmenting or amplifying Rites and Wonders, and  if the relic were powerful enough and truly miraculous in its own right, of  Miracles. Great Relics might be highly miraculous in anyone's hands, but far  more so in the hand of Saint or powerful and virtuous cleric.   Lastly, I think the cleric should have a special  Staff (like a shepherd's crook, for example) and/or Rod, both a symbol of his  office or station and a focus for power and wonder working. This would include  staffs (staves) or rods which are normal (any cleric could carry them), to  special Miraculous staffs (the analogue to the Staff of the Magi for the  Magic-User) all the way up to the Relical Staff which had once been the  possession of a very powerful Cleric, Prophet, or Saint.   Changes like these, and some of the others  suggested would, I think, go a long way to transforming the Cleric into a  totally unique Miracle worker rather than just a supernatural  Magic-User.</blockquote>

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