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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 6941629" data-attributes="member: 158">I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can't use charisma if you're dead, hence the valuation of charisma over CON with most players. Once you are sure you'll live through an Orcish axe to the face, then you can think about deception and persuasion. It's an age old argument to be sure -  one even Gary Gygax made 40 years ago in the AD&D rules, before Sorcerers or the like (I believe he even used Napoleon and Hitler as examples.) He even introduced Comeliness as a separate stat for a short while; it really didn't take hold, and was dropped when the game was revised by others.As a side note, my group is playing Hell's Rebels for Pathfinder now, and the nature of the AP series is such that socially-skilled characters are important; we kind of went overboard, and 5 out of 8 PCs have high CHA and social skills, even as we're built to kick butt. It's like a bunch of actors and rock stars banded together to become freedom fighters. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>