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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 1338146" data-attributes="member: 1465">I think that all of the Paladin's traits you are questioning are part of the D&D old stereotype of Paladinhood itself. I don't myself like the stereotype much, and I think that it works stainlessly only if the players have a very trivial approach to alignment in RPG.All this 4 points can be of course true for a specific kind of Paladin, but I agree with you that lacking one or more of them doesn't necessarily strip the Paladin of his Paladinhood. They are just an example. However, there should be something to distinguish a Paladin from a simple LG Fighter. Clearly the only thing we can base it about in core rules is the different class progression and abilities; we could decide to use a Paladin PrCl instead of the core class, or to change the core class to fit another stereotype, but we would not be talking about the same character anymore...IMHO as they stand in the PHB, the Fighter is the character who "fights by technique" while the Paladin is the character who "fights by willpower". By the same line, the Barbarian is the one who "fights by instinct", the Ranger the one who "fights by experience" and the Monk "fights by self-control". If it sounds too simple, it's because it is... just a quick simplification not to be taken too seriously, ok?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Effectively, if I have to comment on each of your 4 points...1+4) Every PC might follow a code, this doesn't make him a paladin, but it is more typical for Lawful characters: if you decide that all paladins are lawful, they are more likely to have a code of conduct than not because they would actually like to have one (or think it's right to do so). I wouldn't say that necessarily a Pal is chosen by a God, it could be the opposite, that he chose to serve a God: in either case, this choice may be followed by a code of conduct.A Paladin is probably attracted by joining a religion however, since he may find himself among people with the same ideals.2+3) Lies & Law... somehow the majority of RPGers stick to the old idea that if you lie once you are not Lawful, if you steal once you are not lawful and probably not good as well... at the same time nobody thinks that if you KILL someone then you can still be LG! I mean if you attack some other human - because you know their are quite evil - and kill him you are not against the law and you are not evil, you are simply a Paladin. I know that in 1800's Western US the typical law was to hang thieves and give a pat on the back of murderers, but this doesn't mean it represents good.But back to our Pally, it is not completely wrong to accept that someone so focused on serving a deity or a moral/ethical ideal, he probably has some need to be lawful to carry the burden without question, and usually (but as you say, not necessarily always) will turn to act lawful in many circumstances, perhaps including lying and stealing. But a single individual may be a Paladin even lying, if it's ok for him and his deity. For example, I guess there could be Paladins of Garl Glittergold (if St.Cuthbert can, why can't he?), and I don't think they should have problems in lying for good or stealing the BBEG's weapons or using tricks against an orc squad...On the overall, I think it depends on specific individuals. What defines the PHB Paladin is the fact that instead of being focused on weapons and combat manoeuvres (Ftr's feats) - that is instead of being focused in HOW to fight - he is focused in WHY to fight, and has a lot of supernatural backup granted by some divine being or otherwise granted by his own inner strength and faith. The dedication required means that probably a Lawful person would have an easier time being a Pal, or simply be the most likely to be attracted by Paladinhood. Clearly, the fact that many DMs use Paladins-equivalent classes or PrCl for every alignment shows that being LG is mostly a "sacred cow".</blockquote>

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