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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5999906" data-attributes="member: 87792">Correction: A Fighter in +5 Mithral Fullplate and with a +5 Heavy Shield and 12 dex and a +4 item of dex will have an AC of 34 - or five points higher than the monk.Further the fighter has spent 25,000 GP on his shield, 35,000 on his armour, and 16,000 on his dex booster (rounding slightly) =  just over 76,000GP.  The Monk has spent 64,000 GP on his bracers of armour and a further 72,000 GP on stat boosting items = 136,000 GP  The fighter has more than 50,000 GP spare. But his AC is probably only in practice 3 points higher as he's wielding a two handed weapon and a dancing shield.The monk has two defensive advantages - reflex defence + evasion, and spell resistance.  These are significant (will is trumped by Mind Blank).The monk's mobility advantage is long gone by level 20 - everyone should be flying.But damage output.  The monk has 2d10 fists - sounds significant, doesn't it?  Not really.  The fighter is gaining a +50% to his strength modifier on weapons that should be doing no less than 2d4 damage with reach.  And therefore takes buffs better.  But more to the point the fighter can carry a magic weapon - <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists" target="_blank">the monk has serious problems upgrading his fists</a> (or can carry a magic 1d6 weapon).  (There's always the <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks" target="_blank">Monk's Belt</a> for a couple more points of damage).And then we look at the target to hit numbers.  At level 20 the first three level 20 monsters I found were a <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm" target="_blank">Black Wyrm</a> (AC 39), a <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm" target="_blank">Balor</a> (AC 35) and the <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm" target="_blank">Tarrasque</a> (AC 35).So let's say 35 is needed to hit a big creature.  The L20 monk has a BAB of +15.  Strength of around 26 if he's dumped everything into strength - so we're at +23.  12s to hit.  He better have a good amulet of mighty fists - without one, the fighter's hitting almost twice as often.  +5 (150,000GP) will bring him down to needing a respectable 7 to hit the Balor or the Tarrasque - or the same number the fighter needs with no enchantment.  Meaning the fighter can raise his damage (and probably have greater magic weapon cast on hsi sword).  Wounding's a +2 enchantment that effectively adds half the monsters hit dice to the damage.  And he can get a +8 sword for the cost of that +5 amulet.  So that's +5 wounding, lightning.  Or other, better combinations.Not that either character has a chance against the level 20 enemies.  The Tarrasque's rolling at +50 to hit their AC.  The dragon +46/+41.  Even the Balor, primarily a caster, is rolling +31/26/21/16 and 30/25.  The monk's going to be paying for his low AC.  The basic problem is that both characters are irrelevant anyway.  The monk just a little more so because he paid much more for his items, draining potential party coffers that much more.Indeed.  A wizard who gets involved in a fair fight rather than teleporting, scrying, and frying is an idiot.  The wizard is the one with the tools to set the terms of the fight - or to leave one he doesn't like.  The wizard has the tools to be ready for the enemy (scry), to find the enemy (scry), to be on the enemy when the enemy doesn't know they are coming (teleport), to always go first (celerity), and to escape if things turn pear shaped (teleport).If the fight is close to fair for a high level wizard, the wizard should just put on a dunce's cap.By not being there.  The monk made it into the rope trick (8 hours, no rope to climb) and past the <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alarm.htm" target="_blank">alarm</a> spell.  The monk is not just especially sneaky, he's just walked into an extra-dimensional hole and mysteriously ignored the wizard's magical defences.That's a first and a second level RAW spell (easy for an 8th level wizard) and the monk has only made it past either by DM fiat.  The wizard only got into that position because someone was cheating or the wizard was careless.<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ropeTrick.htm" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ropeTrick.htm" target="_blank">Explicitely against the rules</a>.  And anyway the monk is going to climb the rope to follow the wizard, then wait til he falls asleep.  Riiight.  That's yet another act of DM fiat to give the monk a chance.</blockquote>

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