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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6194408" data-attributes="member: 92511">To the point of the thread, I think a monk is/should be a shaolin-style monk.Their training and abilities are physical and applicable to fighting/combat. Use of a limted/specialized group of weapons is no problem. Any mystical/mental abilities (which I believe do make sense and can easily be divorced from any intial Orientalism) should be reserved for highly enlightened/ancient masters (like 10th or 15th level or better).From the perspective that the Trickster[agreed its a terrible name]/Expert/Rogue group are the classes that use Skills and Expertise, relying on stealth and/or speed, dependent on their Dexterity moreso than brute Strength to face their adventuring challenges...then the Monk, without question, regardless of any divinely-inspired fluff and/or any focus on their combat abilities, is a Trickster/Expert/Rogue class.If you wish to use backgrounds and specialties to give yourself a more "warrior" style monk or a more "paladin/cleric/jedi/religious" style monk or a more shadow-magic-using/ninja monk or a more psychic/ki/mystic monk...that should all be [easily] possible.But the default Monk from which to create those PC concepts is still reliant on their skills, expertise, speed and Dex. for [the bulk of] its class features, and so is a Trickster/Expert/Rogue-based class.I would LOVE for them to make the default Monk NON-MAGICAL!!! D&D is a fantasy role-playing game. Yes. There is magic [in greater or lesser amounts] all around. Yes. Magic-users, magic beasts, magic items. Yes. But that doesn't mean every blessed class needs access to some kind of "magic" to make them great. Over the years, D&D has become outrageously tilted to have caster/magic-using classes in every possible walk of life!Part of the Monk's shtick is that they are NOT MAGIC! Their aim, balance and reflexes are uncanny. Yes. Their speed, for movement or combat, is extraordinary. Yes. Their mental focus and disciplined mind are formidable. Yes. Senses and perceptions may even seem extra-sensory. Yes. But they are not supernatural! Give them all of the acrobatics, dodging, climbing, unarmed attacks, speed bursts, unarmored AC bonuses, flurries of blows, iron will, etc... as you like. None of that requires "magic" and should be, I would think, plenty for an interested player to engage in this character class...for several levels!Are supernatural variants possible? Sure, of course. Same as every other class. But why is this game, purposely and willfully, making it so that Fighters, Rogues/Thieves, and Barbarians are the ONLY classes that don't have, by their very creation, magic at their disposal? (assuming they don't default attribution of Raging to magic or spirits,  but that's questionable...so might even be only Fighters and Rogue/Thieves) As said above, if they want to include mental/psychic abilities at very high levels for the monk, fine. But there's plenty for the monk to do/have/contribute without needing to build in "ki punches", "Dimension Door" [?!? really?! They could do that?!], "Detect Thoughts" or [going 1e/old school] talking to plants [???] or what have you until at least 10th level...and even then, an optional "mystic" track for them (beginning above or around 10-15th level) would be preferable, imho.</blockquote>

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