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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dire Bare" data-source="post: 9832592" data-attributes="member: 18182">Again, I'm sure I've missed a lot of the back-and-forth . . . there are a lot of posters responding to ghosts from my perspective (mutual ignore lists), but . . .The "debate" started with banning character concepts from standard games . . . world-building by subtraction. My world is different because it doesn't have silly stuff like tortles or tabaxi!The goal posts then shifted. Well, what about my all elven campaign? Or my all assassin campaign? The extreme examples and hyperbole grew on both sides in an arms race to show how unreasonable the "other side" was being . . .Part of the ongoing debate is . . . communication is hard and the complexities in our brains often come out as simplistic hyperbole on the screen. But it's also a lot of . . . someone is WRONG on the internet . . . (I'm certainly guilty of falling prey to that one . . .)How I'm seeing this all shake out is two different styles of play that aren't really all that incompatible, and can be seen as extremes on a continuum, but . . .<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Traditional Style - DM Control and Authority: It's the DM's game, they set the tone, theme, and world-building. You are a guest in their campaign and should follow their rules. An old-school DM using this style might be varying levels of open and collaborative, but ultimately are the final arbiters of what fits. This style can be hampered by poor communication, doesn't mesh as well with the direction the hobby is going, but a strong and charismatic DM probably has a lot of players having a lot of fun . . . and they likely get a lot of personal enjoyment out of world-building. DM's who take this to the extreme can be adversarial and worry about "entitled players".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Collaborative Style - The DM is simply one of the players and is more a facilitator, the players can have just as much control, and almost every aspect of the game is open to emergent play and player collaboration. Somebody wants to play a tortle, but it doesn't match the theme everybody decided on? The DM doesn't "ban" the concept, but might open it up to the group for discussion. Without a strong DM and/or cohesive player group, this style can lose focus and maybe even get out of control! In the extreme, players and DM build the world together, it doesn't exist until play at the table! Players not used to this level of collaboration and contribution can feel lost and overwhelmed, but it also offers a lot of freedom and takes the workload off the DM's back.</li> </ul>I suspect we're all somewhere in between these extremes, but the "debate" is sliding towards the extremes with lots of disingenuous arguments. Oh well.I also suspect that the home games of some of the folks arguing in this thread are probably a lot of fun . . . but the closed mindedness and aggressiveness against "entitled players" just leaves me cold.</blockquote>

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