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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The "more complex" fighter: What are you looking for?
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<blockquote data-quote="Gladius Legis" data-source="post: 6807523" data-attributes="member: 68748"><p>First of all, I question the need for you to split hairs on what amounts to a mere 20% of 5e's level range, and the part of it that goes by the quickest, at that, but ...</p><p></p><p>Ray of Frost's status effect is slowing by 10 feet. Meanwhile, the attack options a Fighter gives up a single attack for include Grapple, Shove and Disarm:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Grapple reduces a target's speed to 0 straight up, which is obviously a more extreme effect than Ray of Frosts's -10 speed reduction.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shoving prone grants advantage to every melee attacker next to the target and makes the target attack everyone else at disadvantage. That's a good deal more powerful than Ray of Frost's -10 speed reduction. And if the target stands up, that's a flat half their movement gone that round, which often works out to be considerably more than a 10-foot reduction.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Disarm, pretty obvious how strong it can be, as long as you still have your one free object interaction that round.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"></li> </ul><p></p><p>So, your example of Ray of Frost is rather disingenuous in this comparison. A Fighter's special attacks here are easily superior in their effect. Whether they're worth giving up his damage entirely Lv. 1-4 depends greatly on the situation and the enemy, but against a "boss" I would think knocking them prone or (if applicable) disarming them would be a lot more valuable than the 7.5-11 damage he'd do for one round of the combat. Heck, shoving prone's advantage to everyone else might make up the Fighter's lost damage alone.</p><p></p><p>Of all the status effect cantrips, the one that would help your case the most is Shocking Grasp (can't take reactions), but even then, a prone enemy's OAs are being made at disadvantage (while he's still giving up advantage to everyone around him), or a disarmed opponent's OAs are so weak as to not even be worth mentioning, or a grappled opponent can't use their reaction to move away.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gladius Legis, post: 6807523, member: 68748"] First of all, I question the need for you to split hairs on what amounts to a mere 20% of 5e's level range, and the part of it that goes by the quickest, at that, but ... Ray of Frost's status effect is slowing by 10 feet. Meanwhile, the attack options a Fighter gives up a single attack for include Grapple, Shove and Disarm: [LIST] [*]Grapple reduces a target's speed to 0 straight up, which is obviously a more extreme effect than Ray of Frosts's -10 speed reduction. [*]Shoving prone grants advantage to every melee attacker next to the target and makes the target attack everyone else at disadvantage. That's a good deal more powerful than Ray of Frost's -10 speed reduction. And if the target stands up, that's a flat half their movement gone that round, which often works out to be considerably more than a 10-foot reduction. [*]Disarm, pretty obvious how strong it can be, as long as you still have your one free object interaction that round. [*] [/LIST] So, your example of Ray of Frost is rather disingenuous in this comparison. A Fighter's special attacks here are easily superior in their effect. Whether they're worth giving up his damage entirely Lv. 1-4 depends greatly on the situation and the enemy, but against a "boss" I would think knocking them prone or (if applicable) disarming them would be a lot more valuable than the 7.5-11 damage he'd do for one round of the combat. Heck, shoving prone's advantage to everyone else might make up the Fighter's lost damage alone. Of all the status effect cantrips, the one that would help your case the most is Shocking Grasp (can't take reactions), but even then, a prone enemy's OAs are being made at disadvantage (while he's still giving up advantage to everyone around him), or a disarmed opponent's OAs are so weak as to not even be worth mentioning, or a grappled opponent can't use their reaction to move away. [/QUOTE]
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The "more complex" fighter: What are you looking for?
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