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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyeshet" data-source="post: 3924605" data-attributes="member: 18363">I don't mind the idea of stat'ed deities, but then ...I tend to have another view on what constitutes a deity. Not all religions on earth have had omnipotent or even nearly omnipotent deities. Some have worshiped beings that - in D&D - would not even be considered deities: powerful spirits, potent and sentient magical beasts, and even fey like beings have been worshiped in various RL religions. The idea of massively powerful / knowledgeable deities, while common, is not universal. Thus, I like the idea of deities being broadened to the point that epic level N/PCs might challenge them. Even paragon level should be able to challenge the absolute least of the deific beings. On the other hand, I can see the most potent deities being as far beyond a 30th level PCs as those PCs are beyond 1st level NPCs. It might deign to reply to them itself if they have recently and notably aided it in some measure on the Prime, but otherwise they will not even be able to approach it (literally), let alone challenge it. So have paragon level PCs challenging spirits and magical beasts venerated by a local village, epic level PCs challenging deities akin to those seen in norse and greek mythos, and some deities beyond what even a mortal 30th level PC could hope to approach, let alone challenge. As other posters have posted, there are many examples in mythology of mighty and skillful mortals challenging deities and succeeding. Herakles challenged Death  [thanatos] in wrestling and won. Arachne challenged Athena in weaving - and in some versions of the story won, albeit losing her humanity afterwards. Orpheus is said to have played well enough that he charmed at least one goddess [Hecate], caused others to weep [while playing at his wife's funeral], and even softened the will of Hades enough that he allowed a chance for Orpheus' wife to be returned to life. (It failed, but that he allowed it at all is significant as supposedly never before or after in greek mythos did he allow such.)And these are just examples from greek mythology. As for stories of mortals slaying deities, those are rare even in mythology, but there are stories of mortals slaying evil deity-like beings (which may have been deities in prior religions). And there are stories of mortals ascending to become deities, albeit usually at the will and by the working of another deity rather than by slaying a deity.</blockquote>

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