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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 2167865" data-attributes="member: 5171">I ran into that for awhile, but eventually my players and I settled upon a use for Diplomacy that made it useful but not overpowered at pretty much all levels.  The key phrase that I think needs to be made explicit is "within the context of the social situation." For example (brief hijack):The heroes are about to jump into a warehouse full of gangsters. Unbeknownst to them, the gang leader is aware of their impending arrival and has told all his buddies to be ready to pop a cap upon his orders, because some punks think they can just come in and get all up in their business.  The gang members are Unfriendly to the PCs. The gang leader is actually Indifferent – right now, this is business as usual, and sure, he talked his guys into a frenzy, but he personally is willing to deal with the PCs, provided they don’t do something stupid and start a fight.The PCs leap in, and the gang members, who are Unfriendly, are ready to act as socially expected in this situation – as soon as the leader gestures, any gesture at all, they’re going to start firing. The leader says, “So, what are you gonna do now, punks?”The lead PC makes a Diplomacy check that moves the leader from Indifferent to Friendly. Does this mean that the leader is now inclined to take the PCs home to meet his sister and his mama? No. It means that in this social situation, the leader is inclined to give the PCs a break. He won’t start a fight, and if they seem sincere in being sorry for breaking in, he’ll pat them on the shoulder, say, “Well, now you know who you’re dealing with, what can I do for you?”, and be up for doing some business. Unfortunately, the gang leader snaps his fingers in appreciation for the lead PC’s well-chosen words, and the gang guys mistake this as an order to fire.As soon as bullets start firing, most of the PCs fire back – and because the players are used to playing D&D, they all concentrate fire on the gang leader, sure that he’s the most dangerous combatant, even though he’s not firing on them yet. The gang leader, who thought that this was going to be a much better day than it has turned out to be, immediately goes to Hostile as the bullets start flying at him. One of the PCs, however, turns to a nearby gang member and says something like, “You don’t have to do this, man! This isn’t how it has to be! You can have a better life!” and spends an Action Point, and due to some extraordinarily lucky rolling, he moves that particular gang member from Unfriendly all the way to Friendly. So what does that Gang Member do? Does he start firing on his friends? No. What he’ll likely do is fire at arms and legs instead of the chest, and if it’s safe to do so, he’ll stabilize dying PCs once they go down. He’ll make suggestions like, “Hey, maybe they know something useful, huh? We should keep ‘em alive. Or maybe somebody can pay for a ransom or something,” intended to keep the PCs alive. That’s a far cry from turning and shooting his boss instead of the PCs, but it is the Friendly version of what is socially acceptable under those circumstances. If he were somehow moved all the way to Helpful, he might actually miss on purpose or shoot the lock on the door “by accident”, giving them a chance to escape.But if the gang leader says, “Hey, man, don’t waste our bandages. They tried to KILL me. Finish them off!”, then the gang member will do that. As painlessly as possible, yeah, but that’s what he’ll do.And while the gang leader might have turned to his gang and shouted “What the HELL are you doing up there? Did I SAY to open fire? Then who the HELL was opening fire? Put your damn guns DOWN!” if the PCs took purely defensive actions – because that’s the Friendly thing to do under a circumstance like this – he’s not going to try to stop the fight once the PCs have fired at him. No matter how friendly a gang leader is, it’s not socially acceptable to try to stop a fight once somebody has fired at you personally. To do that in front of all his men would be an enormous loss of faith, and he just plain won’t do it, no matter how Friendly he is. At Helpful, he might try to stop the fight until he actually takes damage instead of just until he is fired upon, but even then, if he takes a hit, he’s going to put them down – although at Friendly, he’ll leave them alive, and at Helpful, he might actually treat their injuries once they’ve been successfully shown the error of their ways.By the same token, if that Gang Leader was under orders by a Mind Flayer Crime Boss to kill the players, Friendly isn’t going to make him change his mind. Friendly, in that scenario, means “Kill them mercifully and don’t torture their families for information on where to find them.” Helpful, in that scenario, might mean “We’re going to chase them, but we’re not going to spend action points to do so, and as long as the Mind Flayer boss is convinced I’m trying to catch them, I won’t give it any extra effort.”  Or it might mean “Capture them if they surrender peacefully and take them to the Mind Flayer boss for questioning, pretending to misunderstand the orders so that their execution is at least a bit delayed.”  Or it might mean “If that player jumps out of the storm drain like The Fugitive, I’m going to decide that the fall probably killed them and not do a big search.”  It certainly doesn’t mean, “Oh, despite the fact that I’ve spent several years working my way up the chain of command and am now taking orders from a horrific abomination whose very nature claws at my soul, your single Diplomacy check has convinced me to switch sides or let you go, even though the mind-reading creature will certainly torture me psionically as soon as it finds out that I’ve done so, and I’m completely cognizant of that fact.”Anyway, that’s what my players and I have agreed to. If they get someone from Hostile all the way to Friendly or Helpful (has happened once – Action Point and natural 19 for a Charismatic Hero), it could change some stuff, and it can open some doors that were previously locked, but it won’t make someone shoot themselves in the stomach for you.Sorry – hijack over.</blockquote>

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