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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 3045325" data-attributes="member: 3051">Well, I agree and disagree.&nbsp; First, I think there are a couple issues that aren't being considered.1&gt; It's not just class abilities that get front-loaded.&nbsp; Skills and HPs do, too.&nbsp; The guy that took his first level as a Rogue to get a metric buttload of skill points, but then never took another level in it?&nbsp; (Okay, maybe he took two levels, Evasion's very nice.&nbsp; But still.)&nbsp; Or the guy who took a level of Barbarian for the massive level 1 HP?Fighters lose out both ways.&nbsp; 2+INT skill points, times 4, is still lousy, and 10 HP isn't that much better than a Ranger gets.IMC, we did something a little different: you didn't get the x4 skill points OR max HP at first level.&nbsp; Instead, each adult character started out at level 3; level 1 corresponded to your childhood, level 2 to your teenage years, and level 3 was when you entered your adventuring career.&nbsp; (This removed the need for that whole &quot;apprentice&quot; stuff, and meant that Commoners were levels 1-3 depending on age.)&nbsp; The only other difference was that CRs were basically shifted by ~1.2&gt; Using a single prestige class (Mystic Theurge) as justification as to why spellcaster multiclassing isn't broken?&nbsp; Pretty weak.&nbsp; But there's been a lot of discussion on this one in other threads.3&gt; A Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 2 (or pick whatever your personal favorite frontloading combo is) is great, sure.&nbsp; And if you allow players to pick pretty much any PrC, then that player will never hit the real drawbacks of the combo.&nbsp; On the other hand, there are campaigns out there that don't use PrCs, or heavily limit them by DM fiat.&nbsp; If you were actually forced to take the above combo to level 20, it'd be much weaker than a single-class character.&nbsp; And that's not even considering Epic rules.4&gt; The only reason the massive multiclasser doesn't get shafted on saves is the base +2 for a &quot;good&quot; save.&nbsp; If you use the following house rule, that goes away:Your value for each save is (+1/2 per &quot;good&quot; save class level) + (+1/3 per &quot;poor&quot; save class level) + (2 if at least one of your classes has it as a &quot;good&quot; save), rounded down.&nbsp; (That is, the +2 only counts once, but you keep all fractions).Likewise, we keep fractions with BAB.&nbsp; Each class is either +1, +3/4, or +1/2.These apply to PrCs, as well.The rabid 5-classer multiclass abuser will have drastically lower saves than before, but a slightly higher BAB.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 3045325, member: 3051"] Well, I agree and disagree. First, I think there are a couple issues that aren't being considered. 1> It's not just class abilities that get front-loaded. Skills and HPs do, too. The guy that took his first level as a Rogue to get a metric buttload of skill points, but then never took another level in it? (Okay, maybe he took two levels, Evasion's very nice. But still.) Or the guy who took a level of Barbarian for the massive level 1 HP? Fighters lose out both ways. 2+INT skill points, times 4, is still lousy, and 10 HP isn't that much better than a Ranger gets. IMC, we did something a little different: you didn't get the x4 skill points OR max HP at first level. Instead, each adult character started out at level 3; level 1 corresponded to your childhood, level 2 to your teenage years, and level 3 was when you entered your adventuring career. (This removed the need for that whole "apprentice" stuff, and meant that Commoners were levels 1-3 depending on age.) The only other difference was that CRs were basically shifted by ~1. 2> Using a single prestige class (Mystic Theurge) as justification as to why spellcaster multiclassing isn't broken? Pretty weak. But there's been a lot of discussion on this one in other threads. 3> A Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 2 (or pick whatever your personal favorite frontloading combo is) is great, sure. And if you allow players to pick pretty much any PrC, then that player will never hit the real drawbacks of the combo. On the other hand, there are campaigns out there that don't use PrCs, or heavily limit them by DM fiat. If you were actually forced to take the above combo to level 20, it'd be much weaker than a single-class character. And that's not even considering Epic rules. 4> The only reason the massive multiclasser doesn't get shafted on saves is the base +2 for a "good" save. If you use the following house rule, that goes away: Your value for each save is (+1/2 per "good" save class level) + (+1/3 per "poor" save class level) + (2 if at least one of your classes has it as a "good" save), rounded down. (That is, the +2 only counts once, but you keep all fractions). Likewise, we keep fractions with BAB. Each class is either +1, +3/4, or +1/2. These apply to PrCs, as well. The rabid 5-classer multiclass abuser will have drastically lower saves than before, but a slightly higher BAB. [/QUOTE]

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