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Message: <blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 3045600" data-attributes="member: 12460">For the benefit of Nifft and Primitive Screwhead (and any others who think I used a poor example), let's do the math on 4th level characters using the four classes I originally mentioned. This is all ability score independent and assumes average hp rolls. I recognize not all class features are created equal but let's assume for argument's sake they are at least roughly comparable in potential. The value in class features is listed in parentheses and the explanation for these values is given below the class features. I'm not saying it is a perfect measure, simply a rough basis for comparison.Bbn4-+4 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will (1)-+4 BAB (2)-31 hp (4)-28 skill points (1)-light and medium armor proficiency (2)-shield proficiency (1)-all simple and martial weapon proficiency (2)-fast movement (1)-rage 2/day (2)-uncanny dodge (1)-trap sense +1 (1)Total Class Features: 18.Good Fort is worth one. Good BAB is two improvements over poor BAB. A d12 hit die is four improvements over d4 hit die. 4 skill points per level is one improvement over 2 skill points per level. Light and medium armor prof. are two feats. Shield prof. is one feat. Simple and martial prof. are two improvements over the least weapon heavy class, the wizard. Rage counts twice because you get it twice per day.Ftr4-+4 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will (1)-+4 BAB (2)-26 hp (3)-14 skill points (0)-light, medium, and heavy armor proficiency (3)-shield proficiency (1)-tower shield proficiency (1)-all simple and martial weapon proficiency (2)-3 bonus feats (3)Total Class Features: 16.Good Fort is worth one. Good BAB is two improvements over poor BAB. A d10 hit die is three improvements over d4 hit die. 2 skill points per level is the minimum so no credit. Light, medium, and heavy armor prof. are three feats. Shield prof. is one feat. Tower shield prof. is one feat. Simple and martial prof. are two improvements over the least weapon heavy class, the wizard. 3 bonus feats counts three times.Rgr4-+4 Fort, +4 Ref, +1 Will (2)-+4 BAB (2)-21 hp (2)-42 skill points (2)-light armor proficiency (1)-shield proficiency (1)-all simple and martial weapon proficiency (2)-Track (1)-favored enemy (1)-animal empathy (1)-combat style feat (1)-endurance (1)-animal companion (1)-spellcasting potential (1)Total Class Features: 19.Good Fort and Ref is worth two. Good BAB is two improvements over poor BAB. A d8 hit die is two improvements over d4 hit die. 6 skill points per level is two improvements over 2 skill points per level. Light armor prof. is one feat. Simple and martial prof. is two improvements over the least weapon heavy class, the wizard.Rog4-+1 Fort, +4 Ref, +1 Will (1)-+3 BAB (1)-16 hp (1)-56 skill points (3)-light armor proficiency (1)-rogue weapon proficiency (1)-trapfinding (1)-sneak attack +2d6 (2)-evasion (1)-trap sense +1 (1)-uncanndy dodge (1)Total Class Features: 14.Good Ref is worth one. Average BAB is one improvements over poor BAB. A d6 hit die is one improvements over d4 hit die. 8 skill points per level is three improvements over 2 skill points per level. Light armor prof. is one feats. Rogue weapon prof. is one improvement over the least weapon heavy class, the wizard. Sneak attack counts twice, once for each die gained.Bbn1/Ftr1/Rgr1/Rog1-+6 Fort, +4 Ref, +0 Will (3)-+3 BAB (1)-25 hp/24 hp/23 hp/22 hp (3/3/2/2)-32 skill points/26 skill points/38 skill points/44 skill points (1/1/2/2)-light, medium, and heavy armor proficiency (3)-shield proficiency (1)-tower shield proficiency (1)-all simple and martial weapon proficiency (2)-rogue weapon proficiency (0)-fast movement (1)-rage 1/day (1)-bonus feat (1)-favored enemy (1)-Track (1)-animal empathy (1)-trapfinding (1)-sneak attack +1d6 (1)Total Class Features: 23.Now as I said, this is not exact. I am not saying the above character is 23/14 (or 1.64) times better than the rogue. Some class features like animal empathy and tower shield proficiency will rarely, if ever, come into play, though they can be very useful under the right circumstances (such as a wilderness heavy campaign or a character built around taking advantage of cover). And arguably trapfinding gives you no benefit if you have no ranks in Search, but I have met players of rogues who did not multiclass and still did not invest in Search so the class ability can be useless to single classed characters too. But even if we do not count these class features for the multiclass characters (and do not count the relevant ones for their base classes as well), then the multiclass character still has more options than all others, and far more options than most.Now we obviously aren't trying to compare the potential of a character to a power-gamer; power-gamers can break any class with the right feat/skill/item selection. We are trying to compare these classes based on their own inherent merits. In order to make the argument that multiclass characters such as the one above are equal in inherent merits, you must argue that the abilities gained by the multiclass character are far inferior because they only have one level in that class. Unfortunately, there is hardly an argument for most cases. Rage is almost universally useful for such a character, as is sneak attack as he will likely have the mobility to into flanking positions often enough. Finally, the only class that is even close to the multiclass character in number of abilities is the ranger, who has arguably some of the weakest class features. Some features, like Track, animal empathy, favored enemy, and Endurance might never be used in the campaign depending on the DM (the DM never has investigations, never uses animals, never lets you fight your favored enemy, or never worries about Con checks to avoid fatigue and such things, all fairly common occurences). But if you don't count these for the ranger or multiclassed character, then the multiclass character still has more options and abilities than the other classes. Multiclass characters are simply better.</blockquote>

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