Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Multiverse is back....
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6330114" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Yeah, this is part of why the "One Cosmology To Rule Them All" thing grates on me. </p><p></p><p>Y'know, <em>Dark Sun</em> doesn't NEED the rest of the multiverse to be awesome. <em>Ravenloft</em> just needs to vaguely reference worlds beyond the mists. <em>Spelljammer</em> ships don't need to be docking in orbit outside Krynn to be relevant or useful. <em>Dragonlance</em> doesn't need to be swirling around next to <em>Birthright</em> to make those settings interesting. <em>Eberron</em> doesn't need FR's Drow. </p><p></p><p>In fact, when those things abut each other, it can really harm both of the settings. If you feel the need to smash Eberron into FR, <em>you're not taking seriously the awesomeness that Eberron can offer in itself</em>. You're selling it short. </p><p></p><p>The same applies to PS. PS as a setting is not just about going dungeon-crawling in the Abyss. Normal D&D does that just fine. You don't need the Great Wheel for that. Hell, you don't even need a "the Abyss" for that. A temple in a volcano! An acidic swamp! Just make your fantasy world MORE FANTASTICAL! Dante's Inferno wasn't another plane, <em>it was inside our own planet</em>. That's AWESOME. </p><p></p><p>And you don't need Krynn and Toril and Oerth to make PS work, either. Those characters can wind up in PS, because EVERY character can wind up in PS, but their role in PS as planar characters is more important than the fact that they're a rebellious drow or a leader of armies or a slayer of dragons. </p><p></p><p>D&D doesn't need to say <em>bupkiss</em> about the world beyond the immediate world of the PC's. There's demons, there's devils, there's elementals, there's angels, whatever. They exist, they're out there, <em>who the heck knows</em>. Maybe there's some legends. Small, compact, efficient.</p><p></p><p>The fact that WotC wants to over-define and over-specify this doesn't bode well for the MM, IMO. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This ties into what I posit as one of Planescape's big "selling points" (and one of the things that makes it different from FR or Greyhawk or what-have-you): <strong>Infinite shades of grey</strong>. It's a morally ambiguous mutliverse (even with alignments). </p><p></p><p>Now, that's a <em>distinction</em> for PS, something it does and relies on that not every D&D world needs to or should. If you're looking for shades of grey in your D&D sauce, PS will deliver that, and if you're NOT, if you want your bad guys to be bad and your good guys to be good in classic heroic fantasy fashion, that's cool, but that's not a really a distinct PS experience. </p><p></p><p>Which is kind of my fear. If "PS is Default," and we define default D&D as classic heroic fantasy with Good and Evil, and PS has to be part of that, then it's going to weaken PS's shades of grey ("demons only crave destruction!"). And if we define default D&D as having PS's shades of grey, and all D&D has to be a part of that multiverse, then it has potential to weaken the things like the classic heroic fantasy of <em>Dragonlance</em>. ("Lord Soth just views the individual as inviolate and respectable authority as invested in those who can take it and that's just as valid as selfless altruism!")</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it's important to note that "balance is king" isn't what <em>Planescape</em> implies and meaningful change in the multiverse is precisely what a full PS campaign arc should really be about, but I am all about drawing a distinction between the PS setting and the Great Wheel. I do think "balance is king" might be a bit more of a Greyhawk-specific theme (certainly many kinds of Gygaxian D&D gave me that vibe), which would make sense that this translated into the Great Wheel, but PS specifically takes that in different directions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6330114, member: 2067"] Yeah, this is part of why the "One Cosmology To Rule Them All" thing grates on me. Y'know, [I]Dark Sun[/I] doesn't NEED the rest of the multiverse to be awesome. [I]Ravenloft[/I] just needs to vaguely reference worlds beyond the mists. [I]Spelljammer[/I] ships don't need to be docking in orbit outside Krynn to be relevant or useful. [I]Dragonlance[/I] doesn't need to be swirling around next to [I]Birthright[/I] to make those settings interesting. [I]Eberron[/I] doesn't need FR's Drow. In fact, when those things abut each other, it can really harm both of the settings. If you feel the need to smash Eberron into FR, [I]you're not taking seriously the awesomeness that Eberron can offer in itself[/I]. You're selling it short. The same applies to PS. PS as a setting is not just about going dungeon-crawling in the Abyss. Normal D&D does that just fine. You don't need the Great Wheel for that. Hell, you don't even need a "the Abyss" for that. A temple in a volcano! An acidic swamp! Just make your fantasy world MORE FANTASTICAL! Dante's Inferno wasn't another plane, [I]it was inside our own planet[/i]. That's AWESOME. And you don't need Krynn and Toril and Oerth to make PS work, either. Those characters can wind up in PS, because EVERY character can wind up in PS, but their role in PS as planar characters is more important than the fact that they're a rebellious drow or a leader of armies or a slayer of dragons. D&D doesn't need to say [I]bupkiss[/I] about the world beyond the immediate world of the PC's. There's demons, there's devils, there's elementals, there's angels, whatever. They exist, they're out there, [I]who the heck knows[/I]. Maybe there's some legends. Small, compact, efficient. The fact that WotC wants to over-define and over-specify this doesn't bode well for the MM, IMO. This ties into what I posit as one of Planescape's big "selling points" (and one of the things that makes it different from FR or Greyhawk or what-have-you): [B]Infinite shades of grey[/B]. It's a morally ambiguous mutliverse (even with alignments). Now, that's a [I]distinction[/I] for PS, something it does and relies on that not every D&D world needs to or should. If you're looking for shades of grey in your D&D sauce, PS will deliver that, and if you're NOT, if you want your bad guys to be bad and your good guys to be good in classic heroic fantasy fashion, that's cool, but that's not a really a distinct PS experience. Which is kind of my fear. If "PS is Default," and we define default D&D as classic heroic fantasy with Good and Evil, and PS has to be part of that, then it's going to weaken PS's shades of grey ("demons only crave destruction!"). And if we define default D&D as having PS's shades of grey, and all D&D has to be a part of that multiverse, then it has potential to weaken the things like the classic heroic fantasy of [I]Dragonlance[/I]. ("Lord Soth just views the individual as inviolate and respectable authority as invested in those who can take it and that's just as valid as selfless altruism!") I think it's important to note that "balance is king" isn't what [I]Planescape[/I] implies and meaningful change in the multiverse is precisely what a full PS campaign arc should really be about, but I am all about drawing a distinction between the PS setting and the Great Wheel. I do think "balance is king" might be a bit more of a Greyhawk-specific theme (certainly many kinds of Gygaxian D&D gave me that vibe), which would make sense that this translated into the Great Wheel, but PS specifically takes that in different directions. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Multiverse is back....
Top