Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 6390804" data-attributes="member: 2205">Where I'm really struggling is in the notion that if designers design, then they are telling you what they think should be fun and what you should do.&nbsp; How is making a &quot;lore&quot; suggestion a dictate that you must follow?&nbsp; It's a suggestion.&nbsp; It's a tool (not a rule, to echo the old 3e mantra.)&nbsp; If they say druids belong to a circle of druids and have a global organization, well, cool.&nbsp; I can use that or not.&nbsp; The jump that I simply can't see is where you call this a &quot;problem.&quot;&nbsp; Or that this is arrogant.&nbsp; Hubris?&nbsp; Really?&nbsp; That's a bit much for a designers saying, &quot;here's a cool idea I had.&nbsp; Thought I'd share.&quot;To quote Luke Skywalker, &quot;You want the impossible.&quot;&nbsp; Designers don't know anything about your game.&nbsp; Or mine.&nbsp; Your game and mine likely have completely competing and mutually exclusive needs on some issue of lore.&nbsp; To say that designers shouldn't give us their ideas, but somehow cater to the needs of everyone who ever games--nevermind the fact that they couldn't possibly know that or do that, even if that was desirable--makes no sense.Give me your lore ideas.&nbsp; I like 'em.&nbsp; As I said earlier (although maybe it was in the other thread on lore that Hussar started) I love the Monsternomicon's, specifically because it provided new context.&nbsp; That doesn't mean that I'm forced to use it, but it's nice that I have it.&nbsp; I can't choose to use someone else's context if they don't make it available to me, so the more potential contexts, the more ideas that the designers share with us, the better.&nbsp; So the skorne from Iron Kingdoms reminds me a lot of hobgoblins in baseline D&amp;D, but they have this all new context with this empire and this culture and whatnot--that's useful to me.&nbsp; Darguun from Eberron is useful to me.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because they did something else with the concept.Likewise, the World Axis is useful to me.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because I don't need the Great Wheel anymore.&nbsp; I've already got it.&nbsp; I've got Manual of the Planes.&nbsp; I've got some Planescape products.&nbsp; If you give me 3e or 4e or 5e stats for the same monsters, the lore is interchangeable.&nbsp; So, what's the benefit of merely repeating the lore?&nbsp; Of merely adding a bit more nuance?&nbsp; Of merely adding more detail?&nbsp; I'd rather see a totally different idea proposed as a tool I could use.For the same reason, I've always thought that the Paizo series of XYZ monsters Revisited oversold itself.&nbsp; It didn't revisit anything.&nbsp; It retreated the same ground, when it implied that it was doing something else instead.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Desdichado, post: 6390804, member: 2205"] Where I'm really struggling is in the notion that if designers design, then they are telling you what they think should be fun and what you should do. How is making a "lore" suggestion a dictate that you must follow? It's a suggestion. It's a tool (not a rule, to echo the old 3e mantra.) If they say druids belong to a circle of druids and have a global organization, well, cool. I can use that or not. The jump that I simply can't see is where you call this a "problem." Or that this is arrogant. Hubris? Really? That's a bit much for a designers saying, "here's a cool idea I had. Thought I'd share." To quote Luke Skywalker, "You want the impossible." Designers don't know anything about your game. Or mine. Your game and mine likely have completely competing and mutually exclusive needs on some issue of lore. To say that designers shouldn't give us their ideas, but somehow cater to the needs of everyone who ever games--nevermind the fact that they couldn't possibly know that or do that, even if that was desirable--makes no sense. Give me your lore ideas. I like 'em. As I said earlier (although maybe it was in the other thread on lore that Hussar started) I love the Monsternomicon's, specifically because it provided new context. That doesn't mean that I'm forced to use it, but it's nice that I have it. I can't choose to use someone else's context if they don't make it available to me, so the more potential contexts, the more ideas that the designers share with us, the better. So the skorne from Iron Kingdoms reminds me a lot of hobgoblins in baseline D&D, but they have this all new context with this empire and this culture and whatnot--[I]that's[/I] useful to me. Darguun from Eberron is useful to me. Why? Because they [I]did something else[/i] with the concept. Likewise, the World Axis is useful to me. Why? Because I don't need the Great Wheel anymore. I've already got it. I've got [I]Manual of the Planes[/I]. I've got some [I]Planescape[/I] products. If you give me 3e or 4e or 5e stats for the same monsters, the lore is interchangeable. So, what's the benefit of merely repeating the lore? Of merely adding a bit more nuance? Of merely adding more detail? I'd rather see a totally different idea proposed as a tool I could use. For the same reason, I've always thought that the Paizo series of XYZ monsters Revisited oversold itself. It didn't revisit anything. It retreated the same ground, when it implied that it was doing something else instead. [/QUOTE]

Verification