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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6396309" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I can totally get that. If I was in the mood for some noble epic, PS would not be my choice of setting. I really enjoy irreverence and pro-active players (you know, my Dragonlance character is a minotaur bard with a lost True Love and a villain set up in the backstory, after all), so PS scratches a lot of my "have fun with some friends playing make-believe" itches, but like DL or GH or FR or EB, it has stories it is well suited for and stories it is not well suited for. It is not well suited for being reverent in the face of the heavens. You can do it, but the setting isn't made with that in mind. </p><p></p><p>And I'd never want to play D&D again in a world where PS adventures were the only planar adventures you could play (a la most of 2e). How you treat a cosmology affects how you play in a setting, and while PS works for PS, it wouldn't work for Eberron (for instance).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Folks are free to pooh-pooh any setting for any reason they want. You could hate it because of completely arbitrary reasons. Sometimes it's just useful to understand why people like a thing. Like, I don't think FR, Dragonlance, or the Nentir Vale are any great shakes, but I like hearing what other folks enjoy about them, if only to understand what kind of aesthetics people look for in their D&D games. </p><p></p><p>[sblock]</p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe I'm misunderstanding how you're using the idea of "setting exploration" here, but I was pretty clear with how I was using the term "exploration" -- as "going somewhere cool, doing a thing, and coming home."</p><p></p><p>Poking a hole in the fabric of reality doesn't have that goal. Rather, the goal is unleashing chaos into the broader world, making the fundamental instability of things a part of the whole multiverse rather than one bit of it. It is about furthering your aims (as the Xaositect I was projecting there) of making all of reality a fundamentally less coherent place. It's about changing the setting, about forcing the world to react to you, about setting the stakes for your character's legacy. It'd be Paragon Tier or Epic Tier in my layout -- you have accomplished something great, and now you're going to see the awesomeness and horror that you've unleashed. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, it's about setting transformation. Your belief that the strong are in control means that you control others by virtue of having some strength that not everyone does. Others listen to you, the idea spreads, and you become a central figure for others to react to. It's Heroic-tier stuff in my presentation: you are getting the setting to recognize that you are a power to be respected.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It matters because Truth matters (to this hypothetical Athar character). Because now you have given people new eyes with which to see and revealed to them the actual layout of the cosmos, where the gods are merely tools. And no conflict? I mean, the implication there is that <em>all the gods are going to pass away because people no longer view them as important</em>. Just look at Charles Darwin's legacy and see the conflicts that appear for that -- and Chucky D doesn't live in a world where the divinities he questioned actually manifest and kill people for questioning their authority. </p><p></p><p>I also don't see how this is much materially different than leading a cult of sychophants or spreading the influence of other planes. But I'm not sure your "setting exploration" meaning is clear, because none of those things are "go somewhere cool, do something, and come home." They all fundamentally alter the face of the setting and change the tone and goals of the game played within it. </p><p></p><p>You enjoy the Nentir Vale, so presumably that would not be focusing on setting exploration, but I also don't totally understand how any of those are more "setting exploration" than sailing the Astral Sea to form an alliance of deities against a newly resurgent Primordial army, to grab a cool Nentir Vale idea. </p><p>[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6396309, member: 2067"] I can totally get that. If I was in the mood for some noble epic, PS would not be my choice of setting. I really enjoy irreverence and pro-active players (you know, my Dragonlance character is a minotaur bard with a lost True Love and a villain set up in the backstory, after all), so PS scratches a lot of my "have fun with some friends playing make-believe" itches, but like DL or GH or FR or EB, it has stories it is well suited for and stories it is not well suited for. It is not well suited for being reverent in the face of the heavens. You can do it, but the setting isn't made with that in mind. And I'd never want to play D&D again in a world where PS adventures were the only planar adventures you could play (a la most of 2e). How you treat a cosmology affects how you play in a setting, and while PS works for PS, it wouldn't work for Eberron (for instance). Folks are free to pooh-pooh any setting for any reason they want. You could hate it because of completely arbitrary reasons. Sometimes it's just useful to understand why people like a thing. Like, I don't think FR, Dragonlance, or the Nentir Vale are any great shakes, but I like hearing what other folks enjoy about them, if only to understand what kind of aesthetics people look for in their D&D games. [sblock] Maybe I'm misunderstanding how you're using the idea of "setting exploration" here, but I was pretty clear with how I was using the term "exploration" -- as "going somewhere cool, doing a thing, and coming home." Poking a hole in the fabric of reality doesn't have that goal. Rather, the goal is unleashing chaos into the broader world, making the fundamental instability of things a part of the whole multiverse rather than one bit of it. It is about furthering your aims (as the Xaositect I was projecting there) of making all of reality a fundamentally less coherent place. It's about changing the setting, about forcing the world to react to you, about setting the stakes for your character's legacy. It'd be Paragon Tier or Epic Tier in my layout -- you have accomplished something great, and now you're going to see the awesomeness and horror that you've unleashed. Again, it's about setting transformation. Your belief that the strong are in control means that you control others by virtue of having some strength that not everyone does. Others listen to you, the idea spreads, and you become a central figure for others to react to. It's Heroic-tier stuff in my presentation: you are getting the setting to recognize that you are a power to be respected. It matters because Truth matters (to this hypothetical Athar character). Because now you have given people new eyes with which to see and revealed to them the actual layout of the cosmos, where the gods are merely tools. And no conflict? I mean, the implication there is that [I]all the gods are going to pass away because people no longer view them as important[/i]. Just look at Charles Darwin's legacy and see the conflicts that appear for that -- and Chucky D doesn't live in a world where the divinities he questioned actually manifest and kill people for questioning their authority. I also don't see how this is much materially different than leading a cult of sychophants or spreading the influence of other planes. But I'm not sure your "setting exploration" meaning is clear, because none of those things are "go somewhere cool, do something, and come home." They all fundamentally alter the face of the setting and change the tone and goals of the game played within it. You enjoy the Nentir Vale, so presumably that would not be focusing on setting exploration, but I also don't totally understand how any of those are more "setting exploration" than sailing the Astral Sea to form an alliance of deities against a newly resurgent Primordial army, to grab a cool Nentir Vale idea. [/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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