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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6407204" data-attributes="member: 2067">I still don't see what's untenable about it. Some view order as a thing that produces good, some view liberty as a thing that produces good, and, depending on what a PS character who is LG or CG believes, that can be the case. I don't see the disagreement as &quot;silly,&quot; anymore than any tension between personal freedom and external responsibility is &quot;silly.&quot; Both can be said to produce good. Both can also be said to not perfectly produce well-being for all, and both can easily be turned to evil ends. Is that a flaw in execution, or in fundamentals? That's up to the PC's. Both can produce good. But what that spell doesn't tell you is which good is the BETTER good, which one will more properly eradicate evil, which one is more sustainable or effective, which one is higher than the other. Since evil exists in the multiverse, good hasn't &quot;won,&quot; so they're clearly imperfect in some way. Both strive for well-being, sure, but that's one lonely little point of agreement. If the multiverse is to become a better place, good must be more perfect.The function of the alignment system as an arbiter of cosmological truth is part of what PS explicitly calls into question (along with most other arbiters of cosmological truth). &quot;Good is good because it's good&quot; is fine for a lot of fantasy settings, but PS wants to know what MAKES it good, and asking that question shakes the foundational assumption. PS's answer to that (a sort of &quot;because most people agree on that being the case&quot; democracy) makes it clear that those who shape others' beliefs shape the reality they inhabit. Celestia is only &quot;lawful good&quot; by general agreement. Paladins only detect as good because of that agreement. If a PC decides that all this purity and virtue isn't so good after all, they change the planes via their actions in convincing others of the truth of their beliefs. A PS player can literally strip every paladin in existence of their claims to righteousness if they decide that such righteousness is fundamentally flawed and prove it through play. Which is something, of course, that every paladin would fight.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6407204, member: 2067"] I still don't see what's untenable about it. Some view order as a thing that produces good, some view liberty as a thing that produces good, and, depending on what a PS character who is LG or CG believes, that can be the case. I don't see the disagreement as "silly," anymore than any tension between personal freedom and external responsibility is "silly." Both can be said to produce good. Both can also be said to not perfectly produce well-being for all, and both can easily be turned to evil ends. Is that a flaw in execution, or in fundamentals? That's up to the PC's. Both can produce good. But what that spell doesn't tell you is which good is the BETTER good, which one will more properly eradicate evil, which one is more sustainable or effective, which one is higher than the other. Since evil exists in the multiverse, good hasn't "won," so they're clearly imperfect in some way. Both strive for well-being, sure, but that's one lonely little point of agreement. If the multiverse is to become a better place, good must be more perfect. The function of the alignment system as an arbiter of cosmological truth is part of what PS explicitly calls into question (along with most other arbiters of cosmological truth). "Good is good because it's good" is fine for a lot of fantasy settings, but PS wants to know what MAKES it good, and asking that question shakes the foundational assumption. PS's answer to that (a sort of "because most people agree on that being the case" democracy) makes it clear that those who shape others' beliefs shape the reality they inhabit. Celestia is only "lawful good" by general agreement. Paladins only detect as good because of that agreement. If a PC decides that all this purity and virtue isn't so good after all, they change the planes via their actions in convincing others of the truth of their beliefs. A PS player can literally strip every paladin in existence of their claims to righteousness if they decide that such righteousness is fundamentally flawed and prove it through play. Which is something, of course, that every paladin would fight. [/QUOTE]

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