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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6407663" data-attributes="member: 42582">No. The fact that something is desirable doesn't mean that everyone desires it. It would arguably be desirable for all the warring parties in Syria and Iraq to lay down there arms, but very few of them desire to do so.&quot;Desirable&quot; means &quot;worthy of being desired&quot;, not &quot;is desired&quot;.Where is the semantic obtuseness?As a simple matter of dictionary meaning, &quot;better&quot; in English means &quot;more good&quot;.Hence, to say that (say) Olympus is a morally better place than Elysium - which, in canonical D&amp;D, is the opinion of the Greek hero or the dissolute bard - means that Olympus is being desribed as more morally good than Elysium.Yet we also have these descriptions of Elysium as being more morally good - &quot;unsullied&quot; - than Olympus.How is that coherent?You can render it coherent by supposing that the bard isn't making a moral judgement - in saying that Olympus is a better place than Elysium s/he is saying that s/he personally prefers it despite its moral flaws. But if that is so, then we are conceding that law/chaos is not a morally deep distinction, but more a matter of outlook and inclination.Which is sensible enough, but not really consistent with the default D&amp;D 9-point, 2-axis approach to alignment.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6407663, member: 42582"] No. The fact that something is desirable doesn't mean that everyone desires it. It would arguably be desirable for all the warring parties in Syria and Iraq to lay down there arms, but very few of them desire to do so. "Desirable" means "worthy of being desired", not "is desired". Where is the semantic obtuseness? As a simple matter of dictionary meaning, "better" in English means "more good". Hence, to say that (say) Olympus is a morally better place than Elysium - which, in canonical D&D, is the opinion of the Greek hero or the dissolute bard - means that Olympus is being desribed as more morally good than Elysium. Yet we also have these descriptions of Elysium as being more morally good - "unsullied" - than Olympus. How is that coherent? You can render it coherent by supposing that the bard isn't making a moral judgement - in saying that Olympus is a better place than Elysium s/he is saying that s/he personally prefers it despite its moral flaws. But if that is so, then we are conceding that law/chaos is not a morally deep distinction, but more a matter of outlook and inclination. Which is sensible enough, but not really consistent with the default D&D 9-point, 2-axis approach to alignment. [/QUOTE]

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