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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6407695" data-attributes="member: 42582">Planescape uses, and indeed makes central to its cosmology, 9-point, 2-axis alignment.In 4e the cosmology is completely independent of alignment (for instance, the word &quot;evil&quot; in the phrase &quot;shard of evil&quot; that is part of the story of the Abyss is just the word &quot;evil&quot; being used in its everyday sense - it is not a term drawn from a technical alignment lexicon).The game does assign alingments to NPCs and monsters, but they are simple descriptors of outlook and allegiance. They are not presented as tools of moral categorisation (unlike 9-point alignment).In a Great Wheel world, a character who turns on the Upper Planes is, by definition, doing something that is not good and probably is evil. In 4e, a character who turns on the gods of the Astral Sea is turning on some beings who have a history, and an outlook, and a likely role in the coming Dusk War; but nothing in the fiction purports to settle the question of whether siding with the gods would be a good or bad thing. This is left free for the players to decide as part of their play.Similarly in the Oriental Adventures game that I described. Rescuing the dead god, and creating the karmic dupicate of the paladin, both required disobedience to the edicts of heaven. 9-point, 2-axis alignment would already classify this as non-lawful and non-good. Hence, among other things, the paladin and monk PCs woud have fallen.Because of its stifling effect on the players' freedom to make their own evaluative judgements in the course of play, I haven't used alignment mechanics since the mid-1980s. But aligned planes - that is, planes defined by reference to their expression of values whose rightness (as good) or wrongness (as evil) is predefined - are inherent to the Great Wheel, and therefore inherent to Planescape.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6407695, member: 42582"] Planescape uses, and indeed makes central to its cosmology, 9-point, 2-axis alignment. In 4e the cosmology is completely independent of alignment (for instance, the word "evil" in the phrase "shard of evil" that is part of the story of the Abyss is just the word "evil" being used in its everyday sense - it is not a term drawn from a technical alignment lexicon). The game does assign alingments to NPCs and monsters, but they are simple descriptors of outlook and allegiance. They are not presented as tools of moral categorisation (unlike 9-point alignment). In a Great Wheel world, a character who turns on the Upper Planes is, by definition, doing something that is not good and probably is evil. In 4e, a character who turns on the gods of the Astral Sea is turning on some beings who have a history, and an outlook, and a likely role in the coming Dusk War; but nothing in the fiction purports to settle the question of whether siding with the gods would be a good or bad thing. This is left free for the players to decide as part of their play. Similarly in the Oriental Adventures game that I described. Rescuing the dead god, and creating the karmic dupicate of the paladin, both required disobedience to the edicts of heaven. 9-point, 2-axis alignment would already classify this as non-lawful and non-good. Hence, among other things, the paladin and monk PCs woud have fallen. Because of its stifling effect on the players' freedom to make their own evaluative judgements in the course of play, I haven't used alignment mechanics since the mid-1980s. But aligned planes - that is, planes defined by reference to their expression of values whose rightness (as good) or wrongness (as evil) is predefined - are inherent to the Great Wheel, and therefore inherent to Planescape. [/QUOTE]

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