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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6408948" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>I guess this would be true if the only driving forces for a person were cosmological good and evil... but as I said earlier I find Planescape more in line with sword and sorcery and weird fantasy where the protagonsist concerns are rarely centered around such things... Elric, Conan, Fafhrd and Gray Mouser... their motivation is not primarily good or evil...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One could want to change aspects of the multiverse for a multitude of reasons beyond good and evil...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again how are there not stakes since all it takes for something to matter to someone is for them to want it and for there to be conflict in getting it. Classic sword and sorcery has actual stakes but again is rarely if ever concerned about objective good and evil. I mean if you prefer the type of fantasy where good and evil are objectuvely defined then I'll be the first to admit that Planescape probably isn't a good fit for you. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's about making it a truth in the cosmology... in the same way that if I want to be a ruler in the game I have to get people to accept my rule... or if I want to be rich I have to amass a fortune. I'm getting the impression you assume every one plays high fantasy games of D&D that must be concerned with good vs. evil... and that's just not true. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that in essence is what most sword and sorcery heroes are adventuring for, because there's something they prefer and they want it. Conan doesn't risk his life so that good can reign in Hyboria. Elric and Corum aren't good people who summon demons and lay waste to civilizations (and even gods) because they want to benefit all of mankind by making the world a more benevolent place and Fafhrd and Gray Mouser don't truck with strange beings, steal and adventure to promote some objective goodness across all of Nehwon... these heroes act because they desire something and acting is the way to get, take or enforce it... plain and simple. Again I said earlier these were the type of stories Planescape felt suited for IMO, not LotR... not the Hobbit. </p><p></p><p>A quick example of The difference is... Aragorn is a king and has magical power by divine right (basically he's born privileged, whic is another reasson I think I don't particularly like heroes in this vein) and thus he is and promotes "good"... Conan has power and becomes a king because it's what he desired and he took it, he shaped his reality... Elric destroys his people and their ancient civilization that once ruled all of the Young Kingdoms because they wronged him... Fafhrd and Gray mouser steal from the Thieve's Guild because they want money to have a good time... those are the type of heroes I prefer. I can understand those who don't like the aesthetic (and if so I don't think PS at least as I envisage is for you)but claiming there are no stakes in a world that doesn't put objective good and evil at the forefront is wrong.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6408948, member: 48965"] I guess this would be true if the only driving forces for a person were cosmological good and evil... but as I said earlier I find Planescape more in line with sword and sorcery and weird fantasy where the protagonsist concerns are rarely centered around such things... Elric, Conan, Fafhrd and Gray Mouser... their motivation is not primarily good or evil... One could want to change aspects of the multiverse for a multitude of reasons beyond good and evil... Again how are there not stakes since all it takes for something to matter to someone is for them to want it and for there to be conflict in getting it. Classic sword and sorcery has actual stakes but again is rarely if ever concerned about objective good and evil. I mean if you prefer the type of fantasy where good and evil are objectuvely defined then I'll be the first to admit that Planescape probably isn't a good fit for you. It's about making it a truth in the cosmology... in the same way that if I want to be a ruler in the game I have to get people to accept my rule... or if I want to be rich I have to amass a fortune. I'm getting the impression you assume every one plays high fantasy games of D&D that must be concerned with good vs. evil... and that's just not true. And that in essence is what most sword and sorcery heroes are adventuring for, because there's something they prefer and they want it. Conan doesn't risk his life so that good can reign in Hyboria. Elric and Corum aren't good people who summon demons and lay waste to civilizations (and even gods) because they want to benefit all of mankind by making the world a more benevolent place and Fafhrd and Gray Mouser don't truck with strange beings, steal and adventure to promote some objective goodness across all of Nehwon... these heroes act because they desire something and acting is the way to get, take or enforce it... plain and simple. Again I said earlier these were the type of stories Planescape felt suited for IMO, not LotR... not the Hobbit. A quick example of The difference is... Aragorn is a king and has magical power by divine right (basically he's born privileged, whic is another reasson I think I don't particularly like heroes in this vein) and thus he is and promotes "good"... Conan has power and becomes a king because it's what he desired and he took it, he shaped his reality... Elric destroys his people and their ancient civilization that once ruled all of the Young Kingdoms because they wronged him... Fafhrd and Gray mouser steal from the Thieve's Guild because they want money to have a good time... those are the type of heroes I prefer. I can understand those who don't like the aesthetic (and if so I don't think PS at least as I envisage is for you)but claiming there are no stakes in a world that doesn't put objective good and evil at the forefront is wrong. [/QUOTE]
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