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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 6410741" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>First off, thank you guys for steering the conversation back to the planes, the Multiverse, and Planescape <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Alignment debates just don't do anything for me.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, I thought I might field these issues you've raised with my own experiences DMing Planescape. Your second paragraph strikes me as what a member of the Bleak Cabal faction might say, but (at least as Planescape played at my table) not at all objectively true of our play experience with factions... I've never been good at theorycraft, so the best I can say is that in my games, the idea that the Outer Planes are a reflection of the belief was easy for someone to say, but a far harder thing to shape in reality. Very rarely were the Outer Planes about wish fulfillment, and when they were, you can bet my players learned to be suspicious! </p><p></p><p>Also, I never found the factions "cartoony", pointless, or simplistic. Here are some examples to clarify what I mean...</p><p></p><p>The Sensate faction (and a schism within that faction) played a big role in my game. The core faction tenet, as I presented it, was a sort of mystical materialism, that we should experience as much as we can because if we don't experience it, then it literally doesn't exist for us. This raised all kinds of questions that we explored in play, like "If the multiverse doesn't exist beyond what can be sensed, then what about extra-sensory perceptions, empathy, or sixth sense? Are those a valid way of sensing? What about synesthesia or hallucinations? Does blindness or other sensory handicap make one less able to experience the totality of the multiverse?" We had some really fun gaming sessions where the PCs explored the boundaries of sensation and self, met different faction philosophers, and got some cool belief powers like forming a sensory link with another person or temporarily taking on a blind man's blindness.</p><p></p><p>I mentioned a schism within the Sensates. Basically, there was the core faction which under the PCs' infouence had a slightly mystical view of reality, and then there were two heresies. The first was essentially Epicureanism which rejects the superstitions of the core faction, argued pain was the ultimate evil, and advocated for pursuit of wise pleasures. The second was, for lack of a better term, a pleasure-pain mystery cult which tried to push the boundaries of what people could be perceive thru rites of passage involving extreme pain or excessive pleasure. Obviously, the two heresies did NOT get along. Navigating the politics and philosophical questions became a big part of our game, especially when we had both main PCs as members of the Sensates.</p><p></p><p>None of that was explicitly in the boxed set, but the boxed set and <u>Factol's Manifesto</u> both inspired me with those ideas, which then were fleshed out thru play. Anyhow, hope my experience sheds some light on the potential of the setting <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 6410741, member: 20323"] First off, thank you guys for steering the conversation back to the planes, the Multiverse, and Planescape :) Alignment debates just don't do anything for me. Anyhow, I thought I might field these issues you've raised with my own experiences DMing Planescape. Your second paragraph strikes me as what a member of the Bleak Cabal faction might say, but (at least as Planescape played at my table) not at all objectively true of our play experience with factions... I've never been good at theorycraft, so the best I can say is that in my games, the idea that the Outer Planes are a reflection of the belief was easy for someone to say, but a far harder thing to shape in reality. Very rarely were the Outer Planes about wish fulfillment, and when they were, you can bet my players learned to be suspicious! Also, I never found the factions "cartoony", pointless, or simplistic. Here are some examples to clarify what I mean... The Sensate faction (and a schism within that faction) played a big role in my game. The core faction tenet, as I presented it, was a sort of mystical materialism, that we should experience as much as we can because if we don't experience it, then it literally doesn't exist for us. This raised all kinds of questions that we explored in play, like "If the multiverse doesn't exist beyond what can be sensed, then what about extra-sensory perceptions, empathy, or sixth sense? Are those a valid way of sensing? What about synesthesia or hallucinations? Does blindness or other sensory handicap make one less able to experience the totality of the multiverse?" We had some really fun gaming sessions where the PCs explored the boundaries of sensation and self, met different faction philosophers, and got some cool belief powers like forming a sensory link with another person or temporarily taking on a blind man's blindness. I mentioned a schism within the Sensates. Basically, there was the core faction which under the PCs' infouence had a slightly mystical view of reality, and then there were two heresies. The first was essentially Epicureanism which rejects the superstitions of the core faction, argued pain was the ultimate evil, and advocated for pursuit of wise pleasures. The second was, for lack of a better term, a pleasure-pain mystery cult which tried to push the boundaries of what people could be perceive thru rites of passage involving extreme pain or excessive pleasure. Obviously, the two heresies did NOT get along. Navigating the politics and philosophical questions became a big part of our game, especially when we had both main PCs as members of the Sensates. None of that was explicitly in the boxed set, but the boxed set and [u]Factol's Manifesto[/u] both inspired me with those ideas, which then were fleshed out thru play. Anyhow, hope my experience sheds some light on the potential of the setting :) [/QUOTE]
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