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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6413268" data-attributes="member: 7635">Not entirely. Even if you file the alignments off demons, devils, archons, eladrin, etc but described them roughly the same as they are now (devils follow a strict hierarchy and enjoy torment, eladrin are loosely aligned and seek to aid mortals) you'd still end up with a rough upper/lower split, unless you are fine with demons being neighbors with angels. It wouldn't necessarily be a circle, but you'd still end up with the planes of niceness in closer proximity to one another and the planes of wickedness near one another. Right there, you have a very basic wheel forming. Its only the Law/Chaos axis (which, debated 30 pages ago, is a pretty D&amp;D unique idea) that forces the rigidness of making Heaven and Hell closer to Mechanus than they are to Limbo. My point was that the alignment system doesn't FORCE there to be a Devil/Hell vs. Demon/Abyss split in the lower planes; and you could realistically build the Great Wheel as is without actually using the Nine D&amp;D Alignments (4e retroactively fit it in the 5-alignment system, for example). Alignments =/= Great Wheel, Great Wheel =/= Alignments. They are one option among many (as you pointed out).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6413268, member: 7635"] Not entirely. Even if you file the alignments off demons, devils, archons, eladrin, etc but described them roughly the same as they are now (devils follow a strict hierarchy and enjoy torment, eladrin are loosely aligned and seek to aid mortals) you'd still end up with a rough upper/lower split, unless you are fine with demons being neighbors with angels. It wouldn't necessarily be a circle, but you'd still end up with the planes of niceness in closer proximity to one another and the planes of wickedness near one another. Right there, you have a very basic wheel forming. Its only the Law/Chaos axis (which, debated 30 pages ago, is a pretty D&D unique idea) that forces the rigidness of making Heaven and Hell closer to Mechanus than they are to Limbo. My point was that the alignment system doesn't FORCE there to be a Devil/Hell vs. Demon/Abyss split in the lower planes; and you could realistically build the Great Wheel as is without actually using the Nine D&D Alignments (4e retroactively fit it in the 5-alignment system, for example). Alignments =/= Great Wheel, Great Wheel =/= Alignments. They are one option among many (as you pointed out). [/QUOTE]

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