Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Mysterious Mage vs. Pew Pew
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 5729386" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>It's the same in 4e.</p><p></p><p>Any fighter could take a multiclassing feat, but those abilities are based on Int, so taking Magic Missile as an encounter ability isn't that great an ability. Furthermore, the GM controls all "builds" of NPCs. Fighter/mages can be as common or as rare as the GM wants.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I assume you mean "multiclass feat". Sure, you could multiclass in 3.x as a wizard with Int 9. It's not a <em>smart</em> move, but you can do it. Or you could multi with cleric, if you had a decent Wisdom.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why is this a bad thing?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree. You can use more powerful abilities <em>less</em> often. A 10th-level wizard would get 3 daily attack spells and possibly 3 daily utility spells, adding up to six big bangs over the course of a day. A 10th-level 1e to 3e wizard would have more than that many 4th and 5th level slots.</p><p></p><p>My own group is currently 6th-level. The wizard can prep Sleep and Stinking Cloud/Bigby's Icy Grasp each day as his "big bangs". He still has to worry about not knowing what's coming up. (In one session, he wasted Bigby's on a brute with high Athletics, so it escaped every round, making grappling it a waste. The damage still counted.)</p><p></p><p>At paragon, you start trading abilities. I haven't seen a paragon character yet, but it seems to me a paragon PC only gets 4 daily abilities at higher levels (since you can/must trade out lower-level daily powers).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You need to be at least 4th-level. Enchant Magic Item is a 4th-level ritual. Brew Potion is 5th-level. You can't do it earlier.</p><p></p><p>You need the Ritual Caster feat, which is not free for non-casters. (Classes that use supernatural powers, like paladins, aren't casters, and still have to pay for the feat.)</p><p></p><p>You need to be trained in Arcana or Religion if it's not a bonus feat for your class. (Nature is not enough; rangers don't have it easy if they want to do the magic thing.)</p><p></p><p>In 3.x, most character classes were casters, so in fact even a ranger could, with one feat, craft items like Boots of Striding. A 4e ranger would have to spend two feats to do that - Ritual Caster, and then Skill Training (Arcana/Religion) or a multiclass feat to get that skill training as part of the package.</p><p></p><p>From what I can see, the only complaint is that multiclassing became easy in 3.x/4e. (In 2e, a human couldn't multiclass, but could dual-class; this wasn't easy. A demihuman had to announce their classes at 1st-level; while you could start out a triple-classed character, you couldn't add any new classes over your career.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 5729386, member: 1165"] It's the same in 4e. Any fighter could take a multiclassing feat, but those abilities are based on Int, so taking Magic Missile as an encounter ability isn't that great an ability. Furthermore, the GM controls all "builds" of NPCs. Fighter/mages can be as common or as rare as the GM wants. I assume you mean "multiclass feat". Sure, you could multiclass in 3.x as a wizard with Int 9. It's not a [i]smart[/i] move, but you can do it. Or you could multi with cleric, if you had a decent Wisdom. Why is this a bad thing? I disagree. You can use more powerful abilities [i]less[/i] often. A 10th-level wizard would get 3 daily attack spells and possibly 3 daily utility spells, adding up to six big bangs over the course of a day. A 10th-level 1e to 3e wizard would have more than that many 4th and 5th level slots. My own group is currently 6th-level. The wizard can prep Sleep and Stinking Cloud/Bigby's Icy Grasp each day as his "big bangs". He still has to worry about not knowing what's coming up. (In one session, he wasted Bigby's on a brute with high Athletics, so it escaped every round, making grappling it a waste. The damage still counted.) At paragon, you start trading abilities. I haven't seen a paragon character yet, but it seems to me a paragon PC only gets 4 daily abilities at higher levels (since you can/must trade out lower-level daily powers). You need to be at least 4th-level. Enchant Magic Item is a 4th-level ritual. Brew Potion is 5th-level. You can't do it earlier. You need the Ritual Caster feat, which is not free for non-casters. (Classes that use supernatural powers, like paladins, aren't casters, and still have to pay for the feat.) You need to be trained in Arcana or Religion if it's not a bonus feat for your class. (Nature is not enough; rangers don't have it easy if they want to do the magic thing.) In 3.x, most character classes were casters, so in fact even a ranger could, with one feat, craft items like Boots of Striding. A 4e ranger would have to spend two feats to do that - Ritual Caster, and then Skill Training (Arcana/Religion) or a multiclass feat to get that skill training as part of the package. From what I can see, the only complaint is that multiclassing became easy in 3.x/4e. (In 2e, a human couldn't multiclass, but could dual-class; this wasn't easy. A demihuman had to announce their classes at 1st-level; while you could start out a triple-classed character, you couldn't add any new classes over your career.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Mysterious Mage vs. Pew Pew
Top