The Myth of the Amazon

[hunter1828]

I moved this here so that I don't continue to disrupt a good thread on cross-gender roleplaying...

Merely the notice that since I have heard women who've practiced archery say that some sort of binding or other would be needed, one guys random assertion was not useful. but you can claim I brought sexism into it if you really feel like it...

And again I mention that I know female archers who say that an everyday, normal sports bra is the only thing needed and the idea of self-mutilation, a la the amazons, would be, in their minds, ludicrous.

or not. I find nothing at all sexist in the idea (well, its only about women, so lets say I find nothing anti woman about it). As a part of the myth it is no worse an idea than that of circumcision - a ritual removal to show membership in a group which may or may not have a benefit.

But the fact is, there is no actual evidence of an amazonian society that removed their breasts. Circumcision actually does happen, and frequently at that. And it has nothing to do with any sort of physical exertion or activity, such as archery. You have compared apples and oranges.

I found the playing of a woman so unconcerned with her ability to lactate, or perception of her within a civilized view of what women is to be quite a wonderful expereince. I have examined the myth, and the mythos which has grown around it, and no, it doesn't even hint of the amazon being less than a woman, or bestial or any other bunk.

You are welcome to your interpretation of the myth. I interpret it differently.

For some reason, this part of a mythos turns otherwise sane fantasy fans into quasi historical scholars

Actually, I am an historian. It's how I make my living.

and makes men weirdly uncomfortable.

Having known women that have had to have a breast (or both) removed and knowing the emotional trauma they went through with that (outside and seperate from the trauma of the disease itself), I get uncomfortable thinking a female (mythological or historical) would voluntarily do that to themselves.

Its interesting. That reaction may well have some sexual connotations. But if the myth itself is a sexist attack on warrior women, it seems to have somehow eluded all the women I have ever told about my character or plans for a con costume. And the buyers of a very popular feminist poster which plays on the amazon mythos.

Kahuna burger [/B]

More power to you, your character and the women you tell about your character. The female gamers I know usually give someone a "Are-you-nuts?" look when the classical, mythological amazon is suggested to them as a character.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

You are welcome to your interpretation of the myth. I interpret it differently.

actually, your orriginal comments were pretty much that I am not welcome to my interpretation of the myth, and that "when examined" it WAS sexist. if you are reexamining that possition, its a good thing.

Actually, I am an historian. It's how I make my living.

and is there any other common mythology that you pull out your historian card and try to debunk when it is suggested as a roleplaying archetype? Your credentials are irrelevant, the sudden application of reality to one particular trope is the interesting thing. (kahuna burger remembers B5 fans who loved the episode where a human male was "just tough enough" to go head to head with a undisputably biologically stronger alien, but twisted themselves into contortions over a human woman using tactics to fight effectively against men.)

Having known women that have had to have a breast (or both) removed and knowing the emotional trauma they went through with that (outside and seperate from the trauma of the disease itself), I get uncomfortable thinking a female (mythological or historical) would voluntarily do that to themselves.

I had a breast cancer scare shortly after I played my amazon. It made the character even more special to me. obviously mileage varies.

More power to you, your character and the women you tell about your character. The female gamers I know usually give someone a "Are-you-nuts?" look when the classical, mythological amazon is suggested to them as a character.

emphasis added. That you for aknowleging that the one breasted amazon is a classical mythological trope. Since I don't give a flying you know what in a rolling donut whether the fantasy archetypes I play in a fantasy game has any real world antecedents, I'd consider this conversation resolved...

PS, we obviously know very different circles of women. How bout if you don't try to imply how I as a woman should feel about an issue, and I won't challenge your knowlege of women's thought and we'll both be pleasant and call it a learning expereince?

Kahuna burger

 

[hunter1828]

How about you don't try to belittle someone and prove they're trying to change your thought process just because they disagree with you. Huh? What do you say to that?

You can't even have a good debate without getting offended or assuming that someone that disagrees with you or points out a different POV about something is trying to change your POV.

If you want to believe and add fuel to something that ultimately belittles women, go right ahead. That's what I meant by saying you are welcome to your interpretation. You're welcome to believe the sky is purple if you want, and based on the things I have read by you you would argue that it is if someone told you it wasn't, then get offended about it when they tried to prove it wasn't purple.

And yes, as an historian I consider it my DUTY to attempt to debunk myths, legends and "facts" that people get wrong or misinterpret. That's what a good historian does. When you're implying your playing a classical, mythological amazon and I state a reasonable interpretation of that myth it does apply to the fantasy world. I wouldn't think of applying an interpretation of the actual myth upon a pure fantasy amazon that is only vaguely connected to the ancient Greek legends (such as Xena, though I am by NO means suggesting your character should be like her as I hated that show with a passion...because of it's slaughtering of historical facts as well as myths).

Having known women that have had breast cancer I'm truly sorry that you even had a scare with it. Truly. One of my wife's best friends' mother just lost both of them, so I can understand the implications. I truly hope the best of health for you in the future.

And again, I did not mean to say you should think like the people (male or female) that I know. You are the one that assumed I did because I stated different POVs.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

How about you don't try to belittle someone and prove they're trying to change your thought process just because they disagree with you. Huh? What do you say to that?

I'd say it'll be pretty amazing if this gets posted before the thread is locked. And the viability of this for useful discussion is over.

take care, have the last word if ya need it.

Kahuna burger