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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 3974670" data-attributes="member: 3146">Requiring feats (or class abilities) to make non Bo9S combat manuevers usable should hardly be an issue in the question of whether Bo9S Combat Manuevers make otherwise boring combat interesting. After all, fighters get feats as class abilities. Fighting characters who aren't fighters take fighter levels to get more feats. Bo9S characters take martial adept levels (or spend feats) to get manuevers. Bo9S manuevers require class abilities to be usable as well. Unless I'm gravely mistaken, a Bo9S character who didn't pick a particular manuever can't use it any more than a character who didn't take Intimidating Strike as a feat can do that. Sounds somewhat similar to me.As for the core fighting options losing usefulness at high levels, that is only an issue if, for you, real D&D only happens at level 15+. If you spend a lot of time playing at lower levels, it's not as much of an issue. And furthermore, the various options do retain a lot of their usefulness at high levels--if your character puts effort into making them usable. A 15th level monk/fighter/wizard may not be able to grapple anything he wants to, but if he took the various grappling feats, built up his strength, and picked up a grappling item or two, all but the biggest and strongest monsters should fear his grapple check. (In the case of the monk I'm thinking of, they should fear his trip check too). Some even get new potential at high levels. Bull rushing a formian to generate AoOs from the cleric and the rogue at 3rd level is one thing. Bull rushing a marilith through the prismatic wall is another thing entirely. You may not be likely to succeed at bull rushing the Eldritch Giant fighter, but there are plenty of other things you can do to the Eldritch Giant fighter--Giant Slayer and Confound the Big Folk come to mind. (And situational usefulness is hardly excluded from Bo9S manuevers--the one that gives your weapons fire damage isn't much use against a fire elemental).Furthermore, the idea that all of the manuevers from Bo9S are inherently more interesting than attack/full attack seems somewhat improbable. How is it more interesting to use the manuever that gives you a massive 100+ damage single attack than to full attack for 100+ points of damage in a round? Either way, you are spending your round dealing damage to the enemy.</blockquote>

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