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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GnomeIllusionist" data-source="post: 3974811" data-attributes="member: 50844">Zurai, I completely disagree with your comparison.This setup seems arbitrary. I agree with the fighter but why a Swordsage, why Dexterity 20 and why a Shortsword? Let's look at some other scenarios.I have not checked your calculations but I trust they are correct. They are the same additional damage. I find it far more likely that the Swordsage will have four more maneuvers to use in an encounter than the Fighter is to find four more useful feats that keep them even or give him the advantage.Same Fighter, although I don't see how your getting +17/+12 - it should be +16/+11 by my reckoning unless you are counting Weapon Focus which is unfair in a feat vs. maneuver comparison.Same encounter as the one you proposed.A level 9 Warblade with 20 Str, a +2 Greatsword, +16/+11 attack bonus, using Elder Mountain Hammer.The Fighter lands an average 6.3 attacks (charge first round at +19 then full-attack at +17/+12 for four rounds) dealing an extra 12.6 damage.The Warblade lands an average 5.75 attacks (maneuver first round at +16 then full-attack at +16/+11 for four rounds) dealing an extra 15.75 damage.This is counting two feats (Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization) for the Fighter. And, because Elder Mountain Hammer negates DR on that hit it swings it even more in favor towards the Warblade against an opponent with DR (which many monsters do that those levels).This doesn't include the Warblade refreshing on rounds two and four which would deal 47.25 extra damage. A Crusader or Swordsage with the same weapon, stats and maneuver would do exactly the same. If we compare a Fighter with Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization (4 feats) to a Crusader with one extra maneuver (Doom Charge) we get:Fighter average 6.75 attacks, 27 extra damage.Crusader average 5.35 attacks, 33.6 extra damage.I am sure there are feats that would add more extra damage than a single maneuver when measured in this way, but they would be more complex to compare because of additional factors. The 'classic' Fighter feats certainly aren't more powerful than maneuvers, though. And feats are a Fighters only class feature.EDIT: I started typing my post before I saw the last few, sorry. Zurai, your post with the five feats and five maneuvers is interesting and is what I meant by it being more complex to compare other feats. A Fighter certainly can out-damage a Warblade but it requires more optimization and circumstances in my opinion and experience.</blockquote>

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