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<blockquote data-quote="Zurai" data-source="post: 3974834" data-attributes="member: 52324">Yes, I included WF for the fighter AND the swordsage. Fighter because it's a pre-req for Weapon Specialization, Swordsage because they get it as a bonus feat. I gave the SwS 20 dex so it could equal the to-hit from the fighter's strength (I've never seen a full-strength swordsage, although one could of course exist) using Weapon Finesse. Honestly though, since I included it for both characters and didn't use Power Attack in the initial example, it's pretty much irrelevant.Yes, comparing full builds is a much more complex deal. That's why I took Darth Cyric at his word and compared a single feat to a single maneuver. Don't forget that if the Swordsage recovers his Elder Mountain Hammer, he forfeits an entire round to do so, including movement and both attacks. That easily negates any added damage from refreshing the maneuver. Again, Darth Cyric did not make the claim that a Warblade could beat a Fighter in added damage. He claimed that a single Fighter feat could not even come close to the added damage from a mid-level maneuver. Which I disproved. He wasn't talking about classes, he was talking about maneuvers. Since Swordsages are THE premier maneuver-based class, I feel the comparison is quite valid in the context of Darth Cyric's mistaken claim.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zurai, post: 3974834, member: 52324"] Yes, I included WF for the fighter AND the swordsage. Fighter because it's a pre-req for Weapon Specialization, Swordsage because they get it as a bonus feat. I gave the SwS 20 dex so it could equal the to-hit from the fighter's strength (I've never seen a full-strength swordsage, although one could of course exist) using Weapon Finesse. Honestly though, since I included it for both characters and didn't use Power Attack in the initial example, it's pretty much irrelevant. Yes, comparing full builds is a much more complex deal. That's why I took Darth Cyric at his word and compared a single feat to a single maneuver. Don't forget that if the Swordsage recovers his Elder Mountain Hammer, he forfeits an entire round to do so, including movement and both attacks. That easily negates any added damage from refreshing the maneuver. Again, Darth Cyric [b]did not make the claim that a Warblade could beat a Fighter in added damage[/b]. He claimed that [u]a single Fighter feat could not even come close to the added damage from a mid-level maneuver[/u]. Which I disproved. He wasn't talking about [i]classes[/i], he was talking about [i]maneuvers[/i]. Since Swordsages are THE premier maneuver-based class, I feel the comparison is quite valid in the context of Darth Cyric's mistaken claim. [/QUOTE]

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