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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3975166" data-attributes="member: 5143">Wow...someone is playing that crusader wrong if he is doing that well.&nbsp; I've played a crusader for a while.&nbsp; At that level the ability to heal for 1d8+3 is about the best you're going to get.&nbsp; And you can only do it once every 3 or 4(don't have the book with me) rounds.&nbsp; I don't know if he'd be high enough level for the stance that heals people, but if so they might be able to heal another 6 points in 3 rounds.The cleric should be able to cast a 2d8+3 heal every round for at least 3 rounds.&nbsp; At least.&nbsp; They probably should have Augment healing for another 4 points of healing each round.Out damaging a melee characters and Wizard?&nbsp; No offense, but how?&nbsp; A Barbarian with 18 strength who rages with a greatsword should be doing at least 2d6+9 damage per hit for an average of 16 points of damage per round.A Crusader with 18 strength(which is pushing it considering they need charisma pretty badly) and a greatsword can do 2d6+6 damage per round and (I think) an extra 3d6 once every 3 or 4 rounds.&nbsp; Which is almost identical damage to the above Barbarian.&nbsp; It's just that he does less damage in 2 rounds and more in 1 round.&nbsp; Also, due to the randomness of his powers he may not be able to use the power that does extra damage at all before the combat is over.A Wizard at 3rd level should be able to do a guaranteed 7 damage per attack with magic missiles(if you assume the above characters are hitting 50% of the time, then this is nearly the same damage as them).&nbsp; Wizards start out fairly low damage and don't start ramping up until level 5 or so, so they will be weaker at this level in exchange for all of their other benefits.&nbsp; However, they hit with their attacks way more often since they are using touch attacks and attacks that don't require attack rolls.I admit that if you take a stock crusader with low stats, like a 12 strength and a fighter with 12 strength and both take useless feats he'll outperform the fighter almost every time.&nbsp; Trust me, this has a lot less to do with the power of the Crusader than the weakness of the fighter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 3975166, member: 5143"] Wow...someone is playing that crusader wrong if he is doing that well. I've played a crusader for a while. At that level the ability to heal for 1d8+3 is about the best you're going to get. And you can only do it once every 3 or 4(don't have the book with me) rounds. I don't know if he'd be high enough level for the stance that heals people, but if so they might be able to heal another 6 points in 3 rounds. The cleric should be able to cast a 2d8+3 heal every round for at least 3 rounds. At least. They probably should have Augment healing for another 4 points of healing each round. Out damaging a melee characters and Wizard? No offense, but how? A Barbarian with 18 strength who rages with a greatsword should be doing at least 2d6+9 damage per hit for an average of 16 points of damage per round. A Crusader with 18 strength(which is pushing it considering they need charisma pretty badly) and a greatsword can do 2d6+6 damage per round and (I think) an extra 3d6 once every 3 or 4 rounds. Which is almost identical damage to the above Barbarian. It's just that he does less damage in 2 rounds and more in 1 round. Also, due to the randomness of his powers he may not be able to use the power that does extra damage at all before the combat is over. A Wizard at 3rd level should be able to do a guaranteed 7 damage per attack with magic missiles(if you assume the above characters are hitting 50% of the time, then this is nearly the same damage as them). Wizards start out fairly low damage and don't start ramping up until level 5 or so, so they will be weaker at this level in exchange for all of their other benefits. However, they hit with their attacks way more often since they are using touch attacks and attacks that don't require attack rolls. I admit that if you take a stock crusader with low stats, like a 12 strength and a fighter with 12 strength and both take useless feats he'll outperform the fighter almost every time. Trust me, this has a lot less to do with the power of the Crusader than the weakness of the fighter. [/QUOTE]

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