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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 3976083" data-attributes="member: 2067">I think your limit for &quot;natural&quot; is much, much more demanding than most humans' limit, throughout history, especially in regards to the legends and mythos that D&amp;D draws from.&quot;Magic&quot; is not a hard-and-fast category, and neither is &quot;natural.&quot; A disease is considered magic. Spearing a group of warriors like a shish-kebab, is considered natural (if, you know, out of the realm of Joe Anybody). Winning a basketball game is kind of magical (thanking Jesus and all that). Having a baby, magical. Making the statue of liberty disappear, though, is natural. Everything done in a Die Hard movie, natural. There's no hard-and-fast rule. It's kind of a continuum, and it's full of gaps and exceptions that will be different for different people. Speaking to the legendary history that D&amp;D kind of emulates, wuxia stunts are (mostly) natural, if amazing, abilities of amazingly heroic characters. They don't call powers from the other world, they just push their own bodies past the point that most could endure (jumping REALLY FAR, running REALLY FAST, etc.). Fireballs and the like are supernatural, calling powers from beyond to be commanded by the expert wielder.You can't expect 20th level D&amp;D characters to be constrained by the same limits as JoeBob the Town Guardsman in terms of physical capabilities, right?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 3976083, member: 2067"] I think your limit for "natural" is much, much more demanding than most humans' limit, throughout history, especially in regards to the legends and mythos that D&D draws from. "Magic" is not a hard-and-fast category, and neither is "natural." A disease is considered magic. Spearing a group of warriors like a shish-kebab, is considered natural (if, you know, out of the realm of Joe Anybody). Winning a basketball game is kind of magical (thanking Jesus and all that). Having a baby, magical. Making the statue of liberty disappear, though, is natural. Everything done in a Die Hard movie, natural. There's no hard-and-fast rule. It's kind of a continuum, and it's full of gaps and exceptions that will be different for different people. Speaking to the legendary history that D&D kind of emulates, wuxia stunts are (mostly) natural, if amazing, abilities of amazingly heroic characters. They don't call powers from the other world, they just push their own bodies past the point that most could endure (jumping REALLY FAR, running REALLY FAST, etc.). Fireballs and the like are supernatural, calling powers from beyond to be commanded by the expert wielder. You can't expect 20th level D&D characters to be constrained by the same limits as JoeBob the Town Guardsman in terms of physical capabilities, right? [/QUOTE]

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