Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Little Raven" data-source="post: 3976165" data-attributes="member: 10095">Yeah... that's "don't-die-from-a-single-shot-from-a-one-eyed-goblin" heroic. That's the ability to take a couple wounds before succumbing. Heroes that die from a single hit from a weak goblin aren't really heroes... they're just pretending.A first-level character being able to manipulate technology in a highly technological world is proof of what, exactly? That first-level characters are overpowered? Or that maybe realism isn't the focus of the game?Oh, you're talking about the ability to help an ally go from using a standard action to using a move action for a skill check. You shave maybe a second or two off the actual time it takes them to do it.  Oh noes, someone could actually feint (normally a standard action) and attack in the same round! Obviously over-the-top.Oh snap, a first level character of any class can avoid damage from an explosion that targets his area, regardless of whether there is anything to hide behind. That's so obviously overpowered compared to having to wait until 2nd level (like the rogue) that it's over-the-top.If it's more fantastical than the premier fantasy game, then there's something wrong with that fantasy game in my mind.Neither do D&D characters. Oh snap, I'm angry, so I suddenly am stronger and have more hit points. Oh yeah, and living in the wild makes me all fast. The barbarian does totally implausible things at first level... except if you take into account that you're playing a heroic fantasy game, and realized that the implausible is what heroes do.Same with the barbarian... unless you're going to tell me that Rage and Fast Movement are real-life natural abilities.Until non-weapon proficiencies were introduced, most characters couldn't do much aside from the narrow focus of their class. Until 3e, searching was limited to a single class (and maybe a few kits that used thief skills). If this "well, non-magical D&D characters couldn't do this before" is your support for not putting new abilities in, then we should just go back to the time when fighters couldn't notice things (no perception skills... hell... no skills at all), and only thieves could steal things.Giving players the ability to boost themselves at appropriate times makes the game over-the-top? Uh, well, the descriptions I would use would be flexible and rewarding. You're right, Action Points made d20 Modern way over-the-top... err.. wait... no, actually, it didn't.Have you ever read any Conan, where he is in fights where he's bleeding, wounded, hurting, fighting some demon thing, and somehow reaches into himself, overcomes his wounds and kicks it's ass? That's Second Wind.Well, if your idea of D&D fun is "some classes should be overshadowed by other classes in the core rules," then I'm glad you're not designing it.Yeah, I have. Which is why I scoff at claims of the minor bonuses that players get at 1st level being over-the-top.Sounds like you had a carebear GM. I'll admit that SWSE 1st-level characters are tougher than D&D ones, but that's because D&D characters at 1st-level are weak... hell, the toughest Barbarian you can make with the core rules is merely a crit away from being wormfood.Maybe you never noticed, but the barbarian class is just a copy of the Incredible Hulk ("You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."). Nor does it appear you've noticed that a lot of people skip first level because a single crit can spell doom for even the hardiest first-level characters.</blockquote>

Verification