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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 3984259" data-attributes="member: 32536">And here we are at the exact same disconnect...If you looks at things other than D&D, such as myth, legend, and various other kinds of fiction, you do not need magic in order to do amazing things. Things that we consider supernatural would be allowable within the base physics of the world. Many people are just advocating the physics of D&D be changed from being overly slavish to real world physics, and more like mythical physics.More importantly, the current situation in D&D where magic is required to make fantastic physical feats possible means that the average bookworm wizard is better at fantastic physical feats than a 20th level Fighter. A wizard with no training or physical strength can just cast a single low-level spell on himself and surpass the abilities of the finest athletes in the world In other words, the Wizard is better then the Martial classes at a distinctly Martial ability set. It is nothing but dilution of archetype and enforcement of the supremacy of magic-users of others, and hurts the game.At this point, though, I think the two groups are just bashing our skulls together with different definitions of "magic" and ideas on how the basic physics of D&D should operate. As a whole though, if people don't need magic to do incredible things in D&D, I will be much happier.</blockquote>