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Message: <blockquote data-quote="painandgreed" data-source="post: 3385987" data-attributes="member: 24969">Decided to sit down and Check out how a 15th level fighter faired with and without magic agianst similar CR monsters from the Monster Manual.Without magic, he has a +15 BAB, another +3 to hit/dam from str, +2 to hit/+4 dam from feats. Total +20 to hit and +7 damage. AC for full plate, +1 dex, dodge feat used against single monster and heavy sheild is 22.He should have 59k worth of magic tiems. Spread equally between armor, shield, melee weapon, and ranged weapon we get +3 to all with 5k left over. 2k goes to Amulet of natural armor +1 and the rest goes towards mundane cost of equipment (plus any potions he'd need to assualt hundreds of warrior 1's guarding Troy). That is +3 to to hit/dam and +7 AC from magic.Our two CR 15 monsters from the monster manual are an adult red dragon* (AC 29, +31 to hit) and the Maruut Inevitable ( AC 34, +22 attack).Both monsters hit on all but a 1 against the unmagiced fighter, and the fighter can hit the dragon 55% of the time and the Marut 30% of the time. With magic the dragon still hits on all but a 1 and the Marut hits less than 50% of the time. Magic adds another +15% to hit and some more damage. The biggest loss seems the loss of AC. As others pointed out, saves are an issue. Both monsters have attacks with saves. I don't think that either are particularly out of complete hope by the fighter without magic. We'll say he has something to help with saves rather than his +3 ranged weapon.Magic does seem to give the fighter a critical edge against a similar CR, probably enough to alter the CR appropriatly some. It also seems that it depends greatly on how the fighter is equiped. Is he equiped for defence and attack, for saves, or how about transportation? While there is probably magic equipment to help with any situation, I doubt a high level figher can be equiped to deal with all situations.*We shall ingore DR/magic as would probably be required by the idea of a low magic campain. Most likely, masterwork weapons would be allowed to hit DR/magic.</blockquote>

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