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<blockquote data-quote="buzz" data-source="post: 3333835" data-attributes="member: 6777">I think the point Jacen is trying to make is that it's not the fighter earning the bonus, it's the fighter's player. While that's not necessarily unreasonable, allowing for up to +10 is weighting the player's ability a lot heavier than the PC's.Also, Diplomacy technically has nothing to do with what you're saying, just how you say it. Remember, all the skill does is affect the NPC's attitude. It does not compel the NPC to agree to anything. The reasonableness of the PC's request is something you evaluate after the Diplomacy check, e.g., you shift the duke's attitude to Friendly, which means he &quot;wishes you well.&quot; Now the DM has to decide: does this new attitude have any effect on the duke's decision to agree to your request?IOW, it would make more sense to hand out bonuses for circumstances that make the NPC find the PC more appealing, which could be anything from: the PC being a trusted ally of the NPC, to the PC offering a generous gift, to the NPC being drunk.The above, in a nutshell, is my basic beef with Diplomacy. It doesn't really resolve what I think players really want it to resolve, i.e., &quot;Does the PC agree to do what I ask?&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="buzz, post: 3333835, member: 6777"] I think the point Jacen is trying to make is that it's not the [i]fighter[/i] earning the bonus, it's [i]the fighter's player[/i]. While that's not necessarily unreasonable, allowing for up to +10 is weighting the player's ability a lot heavier than the PC's. Also, Diplomacy technically has nothing to do with [i]what[/i] you're saying, just [i]how[/i] you say it. Remember, all the skill does is affect the NPC's attitude. It does not compel the NPC to agree to anything. The reasonableness of the PC's request is something you evaluate [i]after[/i] the Diplomacy check, e.g., you shift the duke's attitude to [i]Friendly[/i], which means he "wishes you well." Now the DM has to decide: does this new attitude have any effect on the duke's decision to agree to your request? IOW, it would make more sense to hand out bonuses for circumstances that make the NPC find the PC more appealing, which could be anything from: the PC being a trusted ally of the NPC, to the PC offering a generous gift, to the NPC being drunk. The above, in a nutshell, is my basic beef with Diplomacy. It doesn't really resolve what I think players really want it to resolve, i.e., "Does the PC agree to do what I ask?" [/QUOTE]

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