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<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 8074239" data-attributes="member: 57112"><p>HD aren't Healing Surges, they <em>replace </em>Surges, to 5e's gain, in my opinion (which, if we've all forgotten, I've previously established is the <strong><em>definitive </em></strong>opinion). "Healer" is not the role for everyone, true, but it's still a pretty popular role. 5e lets us have a dedicated healer for people who want it, but also doesn't really require a "healer" for a well-balanced party. That's a plus.</p><p></p><p>Feat-Based Multiclassing is great in concept; horrible in 4e's execution, where the math demands you go SAD which sorely limits your choices for interesting multi-class combos. 5e is finally getting it though, if the stuff we're hearing about Tasha's is true (hey, remember Tasha's! That's the book this thread is supposed to be about!)</p><p></p><p>I won't belabor the point on AEDU; but suffice to say it is not an objectively better class design system, and asymmetric class design makes for more interesting character design and party composition. Combat roles and power sources instead led to forced symmetry that... well, eventually led to pointless classes and balance issues (oh hi Seeker!). These are all things 5e rightfully got rid of.</p><p></p><p>Also: "spell and power blocks that were clean and easy to parse with standardized language" always makes me a laugh, because I remember that time that a 4e PC that was on fire and immediately dove into a pond, but the DM insisted they were still on fire because the power <em>clearly </em>states that the condition doesn't end without a successful saving throw.</p><p></p><p>Here, let's just do a definitive list (based, as it is, on <em>my </em>opinion)</p><p>Things 4e did horribly that 5e does much better:</p><p>*Math/Bounded Accuracy (Every PC is SAD or a bust)</p><p>*Rulings over Rules</p><p>*Asymmetric Class Design</p><p>*Ritual Casting</p><p>*Social & Exploration Pillars</p><p>*Theatre of the Mind Combat</p><p>*Magic Equipment</p><p>*Feat Design</p><p></p><p>Things 4e did great that 5e does better</p><p>*Hit Dice > Healing Surges</p><p>*Class Balance</p><p>*Cantrips</p><p>*Attack Actions (looking at you, 3.X Full Attack)</p><p>*Race Design</p><p></p><p>Things 4e did great that 5e doesn't do as well</p><p>*Grid-Based Combat (specifically, Movement & Placement abilities)</p><p>*Bloodied is a great idea</p><p>*Monster design in general (other than the math)</p><p>*Feat-based Multi-classing (5e is finally catching up though!)</p><p>*OK, I also miss Themes</p><p></p><p>Things both 4e and 5e suck at it</p><p>*Skills (Skill Challenges are a great idea but 4e never fully stuck the landing (the terrible 4e math didn't help either), but 5e loses points for not even trying).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 8074239, member: 57112"] HD aren't Healing Surges, they [I]replace [/I]Surges, to 5e's gain, in my opinion (which, if we've all forgotten, I've previously established is the [B][I]definitive [/I][/B]opinion). "Healer" is not the role for everyone, true, but it's still a pretty popular role. 5e lets us have a dedicated healer for people who want it, but also doesn't really require a "healer" for a well-balanced party. That's a plus. Feat-Based Multiclassing is great in concept; horrible in 4e's execution, where the math demands you go SAD which sorely limits your choices for interesting multi-class combos. 5e is finally getting it though, if the stuff we're hearing about Tasha's is true (hey, remember Tasha's! That's the book this thread is supposed to be about!) I won't belabor the point on AEDU; but suffice to say it is not an objectively better class design system, and asymmetric class design makes for more interesting character design and party composition. Combat roles and power sources instead led to forced symmetry that... well, eventually led to pointless classes and balance issues (oh hi Seeker!). These are all things 5e rightfully got rid of. Also: "spell and power blocks that were clean and easy to parse with standardized language" always makes me a laugh, because I remember that time that a 4e PC that was on fire and immediately dove into a pond, but the DM insisted they were still on fire because the power [I]clearly [/I]states that the condition doesn't end without a successful saving throw. Here, let's just do a definitive list (based, as it is, on [I]my [/I]opinion) Things 4e did horribly that 5e does much better: *Math/Bounded Accuracy (Every PC is SAD or a bust) *Rulings over Rules *Asymmetric Class Design *Ritual Casting *Social & Exploration Pillars *Theatre of the Mind Combat *Magic Equipment *Feat Design Things 4e did great that 5e does better *Hit Dice > Healing Surges *Class Balance *Cantrips *Attack Actions (looking at you, 3.X Full Attack) *Race Design Things 4e did great that 5e doesn't do as well *Grid-Based Combat (specifically, Movement & Placement abilities) *Bloodied is a great idea *Monster design in general (other than the math) *Feat-based Multi-classing (5e is finally catching up though!) *OK, I also miss Themes Things both 4e and 5e suck at it *Skills (Skill Challenges are a great idea but 4e never fully stuck the landing (the terrible 4e math didn't help either), but 5e loses points for not even trying). [/QUOTE]
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