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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8074308" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. You asked what, in my opinion, 5e would be doing better if it had embraced from 4e, and healing surges are one of those things. You are free to disagree with me on that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>...Ok? “Lack of a dedicated healer role” was not one of the things I said 5e would have done better to have brought over from 4e, so this seems like a nonsequitur to me.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Mhmm. So, again, feat-based multiclassing was a good idea from 4e that 5e would have done better to have embraced. That 4e’s execution of the idea was flawed doesn’t mean the idea wasn’t worth bringing over, and the fact that they are doing so in Tasha’s seems to edify my position on the matter.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Who said anything about AEDU or symmetrical class design? I didn’t. I think Essentials made a good move by breaking free of those design constraints, and 5e did well to follow suit.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Roles and power sources <em>did</em> lead to grid-filling in 4e. That doesn’t mean they would have had to do so in 5e. They were useful design tech that 5e abandoned rather than trying to improve upon, to its detriment.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Forgive me if I don’t take seriously the argument that the design was bad because some people used it improperly.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For the most part I agree with these, apart from ritual casting. And while I think 5e’s Feat design is an improvement over 4e’s, I think it still has a lot of room for improvement.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Disagreed on all counts. Healing surges are infinitely better than hit dice, 4e classes were much better balanced than 5e classes (though, I would argue that until Essentials, 4e classes may actually have been a bit <em>too</em> precisely balanced, and 5e did improve on it by letting things be a bit looser), cantrips are basically the same in both editions (and bringing them over was a good move), the action economies of both editions are basically the same but the wording was clearer in 4e, and race design... eh, I don’t think either edition performed spectacularly in that department.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed on all counts.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think 5e’s skill system was actually a big improvement from 4e’s, though I think they hit on something truly great in the Next playtest and gradually walked it back to being merely pretty good in its final form. Skill challenges were a good idea that 5e would benefit from adopting in some form, though I don’t think the way 4e handled them would be the best way to go.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8074308, member: 6779196"] You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. You asked what, in my opinion, 5e would be doing better if it had embraced from 4e, and healing surges are one of those things. You are free to disagree with me on that. ...Ok? “Lack of a dedicated healer role” was not one of the things I said 5e would have done better to have brought over from 4e, so this seems like a nonsequitur to me. Mhmm. So, again, feat-based multiclassing was a good idea from 4e that 5e would have done better to have embraced. That 4e’s execution of the idea was flawed doesn’t mean the idea wasn’t worth bringing over, and the fact that they are doing so in Tasha’s seems to edify my position on the matter. Who said anything about AEDU or symmetrical class design? I didn’t. I think Essentials made a good move by breaking free of those design constraints, and 5e did well to follow suit. Roles and power sources [I]did[/I] lead to grid-filling in 4e. That doesn’t mean they would have had to do so in 5e. They were useful design tech that 5e abandoned rather than trying to improve upon, to its detriment. Forgive me if I don’t take seriously the argument that the design was bad because some people used it improperly. For the most part I agree with these, apart from ritual casting. And while I think 5e’s Feat design is an improvement over 4e’s, I think it still has a lot of room for improvement. Disagreed on all counts. Healing surges are infinitely better than hit dice, 4e classes were much better balanced than 5e classes (though, I would argue that until Essentials, 4e classes may actually have been a bit [I]too[/I] precisely balanced, and 5e did improve on it by letting things be a bit looser), cantrips are basically the same in both editions (and bringing them over was a good move), the action economies of both editions are basically the same but the wording was clearer in 4e, and race design... eh, I don’t think either edition performed spectacularly in that department. Agreed on all counts. I think 5e’s skill system was actually a big improvement from 4e’s, though I think they hit on something truly great in the Next playtest and gradually walked it back to being merely pretty good in its final form. Skill challenges were a good idea that 5e would benefit from adopting in some form, though I don’t think the way 4e handled them would be the best way to go. [/QUOTE]
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