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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Marandahir" data-source="post: 8075762" data-attributes="member: 6803643">Hidden behind Spoiler to limit off-topic SW sinkhole that I dived into. [USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER][SPOILER]See, that's what I've been debating. I think it's a great film made even better by latching A New Hope onto it, but a poor introduction to the franchise as it does not ease you into or answer questions AT ALL. It throws a lot at you and gives you no time to breathe and ponder. Without using some poor unfortunate souls as guinea pigs though, all of this is theorycrafting, because every one of us arguing one order or another has seen the films enough to not be surprised by the reveals we're trying to line up with different watch orders. We can't "go back" and erase our memories of the films when watching it, so Rogue One is almost certainly easier on the brain for us who have seen the rest of the Saga.I'd argue that IX is similar, and I fear that's the issue that allowed the final cut to make it in as it is. Every time I watch the film I like it more, I get it more, the film has more time to breathe because I'm not overwhelmed by the pacing. But the first time I watched it I felt like I was locked into a roller-coaster, and that's not necessarily a good thing. I do really like the film, but I've seen it 5 times now and a film should be able to stand on its own with a single viewing (or rather, stand within a franchise in a single viewing if it's dependent on previous films; for comparison, I shouldn't have to watch the final episode of a TV series multiple times to "get" it).I fundamentally disagree. Episode I is pivotal to the stakes of the entire Saga. It's importance should not be understated.Machete-Jumping through OT and PT is fine, but you must not drop Episode I.People who skip Episode I miss the underlying message of the entire Prequel Trilogy. We're supposed to be HAPPY that Naboo triumphed over the Trade Federation. George Lucas is doing here what GRRM does with Danaerys Targaryan. We're supposed to like and become invested in the villains and the systems that allow their rise to power. The twist of the PT doesn't work if you cut out Episode I.Episode I hinges entirely on the Duel of Fates. The song is called that because it's about the fate of Anakin Skywalker. If Qui-Gon Jinn survives his fight with Darth Maul, he'll be the father figure that Anakin needs, the one who can guide him and nurture him on his journey in the Force. Obi-Wan… couldn't be that father figure to him. There's a reason Anakin meekly says to Obi-Wan, "you've been like a father to me" but Obi-Wan later says to Anakin "You were my brother, Anakin! I loved you!"Anakin's desperately searching for a father after he's taken away from his mother, and wants Obi-Wan to be that, but Ben is too rigid and close-minded, sort of a perfect ideal of the state of the Jedi at the time; their eyes clouded by their arrogance in belief that the Light Side belonged to the Jedi. Ben, like Anakin and Yoda and Mace and all the others, become Generals in a war, and Anakin finds a surrogate father INSTEAD in Sheev Palpatine.The pivotal moment is Qui-Gon's death. This is Palpatine ensuring that he can mold Anakin, with the goal of making him into his next Sith vessel. When Vader fails at Mustafar, and is no longer suitable as a vessel for Palpatine, he instead is transformed into Sidious' slave and enforcer. But the promise of a new Vader in Luke Skywalker is why Palpatine says "you like your father, now belong to me" in VI. Palpatine plans to inhabit Luke, because if Luke beats his father through aggressive action, he's opened himself to being a new Vader. Same deal with Ben Solo in VII-VIII-IX and Rey in IX.But Episode I is also pivotal because of the rise to power of Palpatine. It's about a Senate that cannot govern, and the allure of consolidating power into an authoritarian to handle crises when democracy breaks down. We cheer the Jedi and Naboo forces overcoming the Trade Federation outside the governing systems, and celebrate with the band playing the Emperor's theme, albeit sped up and in Major. This is a direct parallel to the rise of Julius Caesar, and Lucas also wanted to speak to the rise of certain American Presidents he was critical of (don't want to get too political here, so I'll leave it at that).Star Wars is Anakin's story, but it's also Palpatine's story and Luke's story and Leia's story and Rey's story. No one character listed above is more important than the others in the tale (could also argue that it's Han Solo's story too, especially with the Solo solo film starting off his arc in the tale).In addition, without Episode I, Maul's arc is lost. This might seem insignificant to those who ignore the TV shows, but then if you watch Solo you'll be greatly confused.I'd argue that TCW is equally important to understanding how Anakin can become Vader (it definitely smooths out his teenage years and character arc), but if you're not going to watch Episode I, I doubt you'd touch The Clone Wars. That would make Episode I even MORE important to show us an Anakin Skywalker who is still a wide-eyed, innocent idealistic pilot, mechanic, and good friend. Episode II Anakin is having some of the worst days of his life, only really outdone by Episode III Anakin's experiences. It makes it sound like Anakin's just always been this creepy, authoritarian bad guy who's go-to answer to the Senate not deciding how to act is to "Make them decide" through a dictator (as he says to Padmé while they're rolling romantically in the hills). That's not his natural state, that's the Anakin who has been molded for years by the mentorship and surrogate fathering of Palpatine. But without Episode I, we don't know that.Episode I is not just an anthology story, and the creator of the Machete Order is dead wrong to exclude it. You need all VI episodes if you want a "complete story" with the Lucas films and you're even considering adding the PT to the OT.VII-VIII-IX are optional but recommended. They're not needed because the story of I-VI is about the rise and fall of an Empire. VII-VIII-IX tell the story of the realistic aftermath of what would happen after overthrowing an Empire (it's not all hunky-dory), and how these war heroes would end up in the rocky attempts to rebuild a democracy from the ashes. And IX is no worse than anything the PT put out, it's just that the authorial intent of IX and VIII clearly clash (both serve as natural extensions of VII but give a bit of narrative whiplash when put together). It still works but Lucasfilm has had to do a lot of patching work with the canon EU materials to smooth out the edges (just like they had to with The Clone Wars for the issues of II and III).[/SPOILER]</blockquote>

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