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<blockquote data-quote="Rodrigo Istalindir" data-source="post: 2968315" data-attributes="member: 2810">I'm not the one complaining about complexity.&nbsp; I have a long track record of saying 'close enough is good enough' for NPCs.&nbsp; I have the computer tools to do it right when I feel the need to.&nbsp; I have the experience and tricks of the trade to run complicated fights.&nbsp; I'm not the target of what we're talking about.&nbsp; Sheesh, compared to 1st edition Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 2020, or Aftermath, d20 is a walk in the park.&nbsp; Hell, I used to run 'Powers and Perils' games&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!&nbsp; &nbsp; :eek:"&nbsp; data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> What I and others have a problem with is the perceptions that seem to be influencing future design decisions:* The perception that everyone else is complaining about the complexity, that it's too hard for new players and new DMs, and that we have to simplify creatures to remove extraneous abilities because its too much to keep track of.* The perception that 'OMG Players will cry and go home' if their gear gets whacked, cause you know its just too hard for the DM to, you know, plan ahead and resupply the party at the appropraite time.There's no doubt that d20 could use a nip and tuck here and there.&nbsp; But stripping monsters down to the bare minimum, or removing save-or-die spells, or eliminating niche monsters that might hurt the players feelings isn't the right direction, IMO.The &quot;bloat&quot; of abilities of creatures is non-existant compared to the complexity added by class levels, or high-level NPCs, or a variety of other things.&nbsp; If running an ogre-mage is problematic, how the hell would you run a ogre with six sorceror levels, where there are even more things to deal with?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rodrigo Istalindir, post: 2968315, member: 2810"] I'm not the one complaining about complexity. I have a long track record of saying 'close enough is good enough' for NPCs. I have the computer tools to do it right when I feel the need to. I have the experience and tricks of the trade to run complicated fights. I'm not the target of what we're talking about. Sheesh, compared to 1st edition Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 2020, or Aftermath, d20 is a walk in the park. Hell, I used to run 'Powers and Perils' games :eek: What I and others have a problem with is the perceptions that seem to be influencing future design decisions: * The perception that everyone else is complaining about the complexity, that it's too hard for new players and new DMs, and that we have to simplify creatures to remove extraneous abilities because its too much to keep track of. * The perception that 'OMG Players will cry and go home' if their gear gets whacked, cause you know its just too hard for the DM to, you know, plan ahead and resupply the party at the appropraite time. There's no doubt that d20 could use a nip and tuck here and there. But stripping monsters down to the bare minimum, or removing save-or-die spells, or eliminating niche monsters that might hurt the players feelings isn't the right direction, IMO. The "bloat" of abilities of creatures is non-existant compared to the complexity added by class levels, or high-level NPCs, or a variety of other things. If running an ogre-mage is problematic, how the hell would you run a ogre with six sorceror levels, where there are even more things to deal with? [/QUOTE]

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