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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rothe" data-source="post: 2969269" data-attributes="member: 39813">So its tough is that the problem?  There are no ways to counter invisibility to give you an edge besides magic?  Yes you are going to need to prepare, use intelligence gathering, where is it, who is it disguising itself as.  You will need to investigate and not just rush in.  Are these things easy, no.  Do they take planning and care, yes.  Is it something men have been doing for millenia, certainly.  Read Sun Tzu, advanced knowledge is everything.  Fighting on ground of your choosing or prepared ground is everything.  These are the things the OM requires, not brute force.  My point was there is nothing wrong with having a monster where brute force is not the best option, not that brute force does not have a place in a D&D adventure.You know I didn't say that.  These are the many options to brute force melee.  The counter snarky remark: is ranged attack not valid?  Wow, that archer just got trashed.  The assumption in the design philosophy that every encounter should be amenable to straight up melee is exactly what raises concerns.  Maybe this is bad if the whole idea of combined arms and a balanced party, able to attack by ranged, melee or magic gets thrown out the window.  What an assupmtion.  Maybe in the setting the characters don't know about OM.  But if they are fairly common there should be at least tales about what they can do.  Again, maybe this encounter takes brains, advanced knowledge.  If you recall, I said the OM makes a nice boss guy, he's not going to be the first encounter when you walk in the room, but set up so their is time for the party to get information if they decided.Ditto.Well then if you have enough, getting wacked by a cone of cold is no problem.  The assumption seems to be the OM cone of cold is too powerful.  Implicit in that view is that he is too powerful for the healing that is normally carried.  Carry more then if your going to face this guy.Again you know I didn't say that nor is it the logical consequence of what I said.  I listed one of many non-brute force strategies.  One is that your fighter might be able to take the full brunt of the cone of cold while others may not.  A logical tactic is then to try to get the OM to burn their one cone of cold on that guy.  Meanwhile the rogue is sneaking up from behind.  But if your looking for the snarky reply:  Your right, wow, if not every class is equally adept at toe-to-toe combat and they all don't have the same hit points that's not fun.  I guess the whole class system is not fun where some classes are better at sneaking, others at magic and yet others at toe-to-toe melee and taking larger amounts of damage. You just stated the assumption: easy no matter how defeated even if just by walk in the room and start swinging.  Thus, it should always be easy to defeat by brute force with little or no advanced knowledge.  Yet it can be defeated by brute force, it is just going to really hurt your party requiring extra healing.  Again, I position him as the BBEG for the party.  Are not the end encounters supposed to be more difficult?  But that gets off what my posts are about, its not about appropriate CR, EL etc., it was about a design philosophy that might say there is no place for a glass-jawed monster with a one use death attack. Ahhh then end with the thinly disguised insult.  Man, we've never exchanged posts before and you end with this?  You somehow think that becasue I like the idea of a monster that requires a little more than brute force to take down easily I must be missing the use of non-brute force this from my game or players?  Quite the opposite, that's why we've never had a problem with one shot death dealing monsters. Did I say I had a problem with the monster?  I recall I said I like the new OM.  It's the problem with the design philosophy.  Admittedly we only have two samples from WotC, but I think there is a place for a glass-jawed monster and explained where and why.  My concern is that the philosophy presented becomes the only design philosophy.  I agree that the new OM is a better toe-to-toe foe and feel that a majority of the encounters should have toe-to-toe as a good option.  If the use of an original OM as I describe is already filled by another creature, well maybe it is a duplicative creature and needs to be redefined to expand the list of options.  No problem.  But that other creature then just fills the glass-jawed one shot killer spell role I discussed.  I can always say it's called an ogre mage with emphasis on the mage and the view that mages have a limited number of deadly spells but if you can close in with them they go down easy.</blockquote>

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