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<blockquote data-quote="Banshee16" data-source="post: 2969818" data-attributes="member: 7883">Bingo....that's a major problem I have with the new philosophy.&nbsp; It's so focused on the &quot;run into the dungeon, walk, fight, walk, fight, walk, fight, rest, repeat&quot; type scenario, that everything extraneous to that is excised.Look at Eladrins...in 2nd. Ed. they had all that stuff about Veil.&nbsp; It was a cultural explanation for having a spell-like ability, Alter Self, that was 2nd lvl.&nbsp; But in 3E, Alter Self isn't much use in a fight and AFAIK, it was removed from most of the breeds of Eladrin, which in turn causes the entire nature of the race to be changed.The &quot;Forget&quot; spell....great spell, very flavourful, and useful...but it doesn't involve blowing things up, or tactical advantage on a battlefield, and as a result, we no longer have it.Paladins have the presto-horse.....&quot;get your instant mount, just add water!&quot; because, well, a horse is difficult to bring into a dungeon.&nbsp; Well, now you have the prospect of the horse &quot;expiring&quot; while the paladin is riding him, because the duration expires...or the paladin uses him in the morning to get to the dungeon, dismisses him, then leaves the dungeon later that day, and can't summon the horse a second time, so has to walk back to town.&nbsp; Or what happens if his camping gear, or some other important item was in the mount's saddle-bags. The paladin dismisses him, and now needs the item....he's stuck waiting until tomorrow.&nbsp; In addition, it causes other quirks....the paladin no longer needs a squire, or someone to guard his horse, and watch the campsite outside of the dungeon....a central role of followers and hirelings.&nbsp; No longer needed.Hold Person.....now opponents get one save every round.&nbsp; So your third level spell, which takes an action to cast,&nbsp; might hold your opponent for one round.....because it's &quot;no fun&quot; for a player to have to wait through multiple rounds with his character helpless.&nbsp; Sure, that sucks....but that's one reason that clerics and mages in the party would have to justify memorizing Freedom, Dispel Magic, etc. There are a tonne of changes that this whole mentality to design cause with respect to how the game &quot;feels&quot; that have really been bothering me.I could keep going, but I'm a little disturbed.&nbsp; The more I've been running 3E games, the more I'm realizing that I'm preferring alternate D20 or OGL rules....like Conan, A Game of Thrones, BCCS, etc. that get rid of a lot of the &quot;cheese&quot; factor/dungeon mentality that's been creeping into the game, especially since the arrival of 3.5.Banshee</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Banshee16, post: 2969818, member: 7883"] Bingo....that's a major problem I have with the new philosophy. It's so focused on the "run into the dungeon, walk, fight, walk, fight, walk, fight, rest, repeat" type scenario, that everything extraneous to that is excised. Look at Eladrins...in 2nd. Ed. they had all that stuff about Veil. It was a cultural explanation for having a spell-like ability, Alter Self, that was 2nd lvl. But in 3E, Alter Self isn't much use in a fight and AFAIK, it was removed from most of the breeds of Eladrin, which in turn causes the entire nature of the race to be changed. The "Forget" spell....great spell, very flavourful, and useful...but it doesn't involve blowing things up, or tactical advantage on a battlefield, and as a result, we no longer have it. Paladins have the presto-horse....."get your instant mount, just add water!" because, well, a horse is difficult to bring into a dungeon. Well, now you have the prospect of the horse "expiring" while the paladin is riding him, because the duration expires...or the paladin uses him in the morning to get to the dungeon, dismisses him, then leaves the dungeon later that day, and can't summon the horse a second time, so has to walk back to town. Or what happens if his camping gear, or some other important item was in the mount's saddle-bags. The paladin dismisses him, and now needs the item....he's stuck waiting until tomorrow. In addition, it causes other quirks....the paladin no longer needs a squire, or someone to guard his horse, and watch the campsite outside of the dungeon....a central role of followers and hirelings. No longer needed. Hold Person.....now opponents get one save every round. So your third level spell, which takes an action to cast, might hold your opponent for one round.....because it's "no fun" for a player to have to wait through multiple rounds with his character helpless. Sure, that sucks....but that's one reason that clerics and mages in the party would have to justify memorizing Freedom, Dispel Magic, etc. There are a tonne of changes that this whole mentality to design cause with respect to how the game "feels" that have really been bothering me. I could keep going, but I'm a little disturbed. The more I've been running 3E games, the more I'm realizing that I'm preferring alternate D20 or OGL rules....like Conan, A Game of Thrones, BCCS, etc. that get rid of a lot of the "cheese" factor/dungeon mentality that's been creeping into the game, especially since the arrival of 3.5. Banshee [/QUOTE]

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