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<blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 2971296" data-attributes="member: 3424">I put it to you that there is nothing that WotC R&amp;D can do to strip away out-of-the-box options from anyone who wants it. That is, by definition, what out-of-the-box means, no? Not actually following the rules and/or interpreting them creatively?All you need are players that think out-of-the-box, and have no problems with DMs that do the same, and DMs who think out-of-the-box and have no problems with players who do the same. The mutual lack of problems with thinking out-of-the-box is necessary, otherwise you end up with rules lawyers and control freaks.What I find strange is the assertion that standardizing the rules so that their effects can be better understood and anticipated is seen as removing edge and color from the game. Perhaps it does reduce some types of &quot;fun&quot; - the fun of using the rules to create effects that were unanticipated, for example. However, it doesn't reduce the types of fun I find in the game - the fun of solving problems, the fun of tactical combat, the fun of pretending to be braver, nobler, kinder, more capable and more heroic than I am in real life.This whole debate reminds me of a passage in Madeline L'Engle's Wrinkle in Time, where life was compared to a sonnet. I haven't got the exact quote, and the best I could find with Google is as follows:&quot;It is a very strict form of poetry is it not?
There are fourteen lines, I believe, all in iambic pentameter. That's a very strict rhythm or meter, yes?
And each line has to end with a rigid rhyme pattern. And if the poet does not do it exactly this way, it is not a sonnet, is it?&quot;
&quot;You mean you're comparing our lives to a sonnet? A strict form, but freedom within it?&quot;
&quot;Yes. You're given the form, but you have to write the sonnet yourself. What you say is completely up to you.&quot;The same goes for games. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="FireLance, post: 2971296, member: 3424"] I put it to you that there is nothing that WotC R&D can do to strip away out-of-the-box options from anyone who [U]wants[/U] it. That is, by definition, what out-of-the-box means, no? Not actually following the rules and/or interpreting them creatively? All you need are players that think out-of-the-box, and have no problems with DMs that do the same, and DMs who think out-of-the-box and have no problems with players who do the same. The mutual lack of problems with thinking out-of-the-box is necessary, otherwise you end up with rules lawyers and control freaks. What I find strange is the assertion that standardizing the rules so that their effects can be better understood and anticipated is seen as removing edge and color from the game. Perhaps it does reduce some types of "fun" - the fun of using the rules to create effects that were unanticipated, for example. However, it doesn't reduce the types of fun I find in the game - the fun of solving problems, the fun of tactical combat, the fun of pretending to be braver, nobler, kinder, more capable and more heroic than I am in real life. This whole debate reminds me of a passage in Madeline L'Engle's Wrinkle in Time, where life was compared to a sonnet. I haven't got the exact quote, and the best I could find with Google is as follows: [INDENT]"It is a very strict form of poetry is it not? There are fourteen lines, I believe, all in iambic pentameter. That's a very strict rhythm or meter, yes? And each line has to end with a rigid rhyme pattern. And if the poet does not do it exactly this way, it is not a sonnet, is it?" "You mean you're comparing our lives to a sonnet? A strict form, but freedom within it?" "Yes. You're given the form, but you have to write the sonnet yourself. What you say is completely up to you."[/INDENT] The same goes for games. :) [/QUOTE]

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