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<blockquote data-quote="Belen" data-source="post: 2972912" data-attributes="member: 1405">Your argument makes no sense.&nbsp; The character who fails their save 24 hours later still loses a level.&nbsp; It was just delayed until after the combat.&nbsp; In your world, that would still stop the entire game because a PC one level lower than the party just cannot survive!?The only thing the recent changes and this philosophy does is take away real threats and consequences for the players and replace them with temporary pains that go away after a short period.So instead we have a situation where the game changes from&quot;Oh my god, that creature just drained the very life from my body.&nbsp; I cannot believe we made it.&quot;to&quot;Whew.&nbsp; I just took -1 to everything and my hitpoints when down by 5 for 24 hours.&nbsp; Wizards, prepare that buff spell to help my save in 24 hours.&nbsp; We should rest now guys because I am not going forward with a -1.&quot;I'm sorry, but I fail to see how level loss was such a huge deal in previous editions.&nbsp; You lost some hitpoints, maybe had lower saves and maybe a lost point of ThAC0.&nbsp; However, it did not take that long for a PC to catch up.The problems that you illiuminate are ONLY problems if you are rushing through a dungeon with 3 encounters per day.&nbsp; However, that is one specific style of gaming and I do not think that D&amp;D needs to emphasize that one single style.The new rules are not elegant game design.&nbsp; They are gamist design meant to minimize any threats that cannot be solved with a cure light wounds.Stopping progress through a dungeon crawl is not a big deal.&nbsp; Hell, if you do happen to be on a time-dependent mission and persevere despite setbacks, then that is damn heroic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Belen, post: 2972912, member: 1405"] Your argument makes no sense. The character who fails their save 24 hours later still loses a level. It was just delayed until after the combat. In your world, that would still stop the entire game because a PC one level lower than the party just cannot survive!? The only thing the recent changes and this philosophy does is take away real threats and consequences for the players and replace them with temporary pains that go away after a short period. So instead we have a situation where the game changes from "Oh my god, that creature just drained the very life from my body. I cannot believe we made it." to "Whew. I just took -1 to everything and my hitpoints when down by 5 for 24 hours. Wizards, prepare that buff spell to help my save in 24 hours. We should rest now guys because I am not going forward with a -1." I'm sorry, but I fail to see how level loss was such a huge deal in previous editions. You lost some hitpoints, maybe had lower saves and maybe a lost point of ThAC0. However, it did not take that long for a PC to catch up. The problems that you illiuminate are ONLY problems if you are rushing through a dungeon with 3 encounters per day. However, that is one specific style of gaming and I do not think that D&D needs to emphasize that one single style. The new rules are not elegant game design. They are gamist design meant to minimize any threats that cannot be solved with a cure light wounds. Stopping progress through a dungeon crawl is not a big deal. Hell, if you do happen to be on a time-dependent mission and persevere despite setbacks, then that is damn heroic. [/QUOTE]

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