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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 2975441" data-attributes="member: 32164">I'm sorry, I was gonna stay quiet until I saw this...True. And that was the WEAKNESS of pre-3e D&D. Anyone who wanted to play a character who was smarter, swifter or more charismatic than they personally were was SOL. Because ALL of those "personality" things depended on the player.The character was like a suit of armor with combat abilities, a few task resolution abilities...and nothing else. Because all of the things that relied on the character's mental assets in fact depended on the players.Now, I'm sure we'd all like to believe that we have 18 INT, 18 WIS, and 18 CHA, but in fact, I doubt most of us gamers have all those. Which means you're unfairly advantaging the character who puts a  low score in CHA, INT, or WIS because in those early rules, the disadvantage never came up in play.And it's fine if you want to play the game that way. But then take out the mental attribute scores. Replace them with Perception, Knowledge, and Willpower because all those force of personality, intuitiveness and memory things are going to come from the player. That may be a valid way to play, but you should be aware what it means.However, 3e doesn't work that way. You are forced to play your character's ability. There's no cheating by playing Thog the low-INT 1st level fighter as if he were a veteran adventurer who knows where to look for secret doors and trip switches and traps and all that, simply because his PLAYER Bob has been at D&D for 20 years and IS a veteran at D&D adventure. Bob may be a veteran adventurer, but Thog isn't. The rules enforce that. As Thog gets better, his ability to succeed goes up. Let's see, 5 ranks in search? Unless the character has all the time in the world...(which is NEVER the case in most games I play).Base: Search (5 ranks) - +5Aid Another (3 other characters get DC 10) +6Circumstance Bonus - +2 to +8 depending on where they tell me they're lookingNot trying to do it in combat - Take 10 - 10That's DC 23+...And all I needed for that were the PCs to work together (aid another) and to provide them a circumstance bonus for good search descriptions.Yes, they can "tear the place apart" to find the door.I don't see this as the death of roleplaying that some do. I see it as the rules preventing player ability from overwhelming character ability. Why should Thog the fighter find the secret door instead of Gareth the thief because Thog's player has been playing longer than Gareth's?Circumstance bonuses are more than enough to reward veteran players. And aid another rewards good teamwork.My two pence.</blockquote>

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