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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Turtlejay" data-source="post: 4737943" data-attributes="member: 70267">I think this is so much talk about nothing.  The power only grants you abilities explicitly outlined in the power (no change in size, abilities, skills, etc), and thus has no real benefit other than a change in appearance.  This does not confer an instinctual knowledge of how to *be* a creature.  For example, wild shaping into a medium sized snake, you are long and skinny and scaly, but can you slither to move?  Have you done it before?  If you turn into a big cat, does this mean you can instinctually climb trees?You are just you shaped different, entirely for the purpose of using powers with the Beast keyword.  If you decide to use this power out of combat for roleplay purposes, I do not see this as being any more problematic than a wizard using his cantrips out of combat for roleplay purposes, but this would also carry the requirement that the player roleplay what he is doing, and this is what the game is all about, isn't it?In the much referenced example of using it to scout out some enemies, how is this any more powerful than a character with a very high sneak doing so?  Is a band of hobgoblins really going to ignore an addly acting stag that stands and stares at their camp?  And if they do, so what?  They are roleplaying a character who uses nature to accomplish his goals, if he could not scout then the rogue would have sneaked, the wizard would have gone in invisibly, or they would have attacked without foreknowledge.In any case, the DM is the portal to the world that the players must use, and if they do something that seems questionable to you, then you hold ultimate power to make them pay some penalty for it.  A druid attempting to impoersonate a dog to scout the thieves guild might be attacked by hungry urchins looking for an easy meal, or picked up by a fantasy version of a dogcatcher.  In the end, punishing players for being creative by not even allowing them the chance to *be* creative is against my philosophy, and houseruling away some classes or aspects of them because they don't feel balanced to *you* is not really conducive to the group having fun and playing what they want to play.All I can say is that if you were my DM and I wanted to play a druid, I would be out of your group before the first session started.  You need to give each player a chance to play before you decide for them that they are munchkins.Jay</blockquote>

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