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Message: <blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 5805424" data-attributes="member: 1165">I think the lurker section needs a bit of work, mainly around damage. I will use Vincent Gravelstoke, a 12th-level lurker in Threats to the Nentir Vale, as an example. A 12th-level creature could be expected to do 20 damage a hit, making the math easy.Vincent's at-will attack only does 15 damage on average though. However, his attack does ongoing 10 damage (save ends), treated as +10 damage, when he has combat advantage. In short, a lurker often does weak damage but super-powered combat advantage. His total damage is now 25 (+25% over the expected value). Note that Vincent does not have any special abilities that grant him combat advantage each round; he has to use Stealth or flanking, and he doesn't have special moves letting him shift, teleport, use Stealth better, etc. (Also note that he does not have the combat advantage trait, so the bonus damage only applies to his at-will attack, and not to the other attack I will be describing below.)Not quite stated clearly, but his parry ability should probably be regarded as "paired" with his combat advantage. Parry lets him gain a +4 bonus to all defenses against a melee attack once per round.In addition, he has a second "lurker" ability, as befits a paragon lurker. His shadow strike, which recharges when he is bloodied, takes a standard action to use. The effect causes him to be removed from play for a turn (super defense!). At the start of his next turn, he reappears up to 10 squares away from his original position and inflicts a very high damage attack as a standard action: average 30 damage, and the target cannot spend healing surges (save ends).Sorry that was long and confusing. The math was easy, but nothing else was.IMO, for every tier, a lurker needs an offense and defense ability. Their regular attack (when not using their lurker offense ability) should only do 3/4 (low) damage.A pseudodragon is an easier example, although I don't have the numbers in front of me. A pseudodragon is a 3rd-level lurker. It's regular attack does weak damage (low, only 3/4 expected value). It can turn invisible as a standard action. While invisible, it can use a poisonous stinger attack that does high damage (+25%, like a brute, although the flavor is based around ongoing poison damage). The duergar scout has an ability like that too, and when I first saw it I thought it was overpowered. It can turn invisible at will, and it specifically only deals bonus damage when it was invisible when it attacked. That did +4d6 damage, and it's only 4th-level.As Tequila Starrise noted, a lurker only needs to attack every other round, and has great defenses when not attacking. However, I believe the WotC standard is to give lurkers low damage, but huge bonuses when using their lurker offense ability.</blockquote>

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