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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 6113606" data-attributes="member: 23484">The implementation of Skills in DDN changes significantly in the latest packet, and it seems worthwhile trying to make sense of what is here rather than simply proposing alternatives.I’ll start by describing what I see, and then make some observations. Feel free to skip down.1. The list is shortened. Twenty-two skills, only one of which cascades (Recall Lore). Somehow, Drive still makes the cut.2. Skill names are verbed. It’s a plus for consistency, a minus for awkwardness.3. Skills (unlike feats) are non-exclusive. Anyone can try to drive a cart; someone with training just adds 1-6 to the d20 roll.4. Skills are framed primarily in terms of a single stat. Skills represent specialized training in a particular application of an ability check. There is some attempt at equal distribution, unless you are Constitution (which does have a number of intuitive applications for skill checks): STR – 4, INT – 2 (including Recall Lore), WIS – 5, DEX – 6, CON – zero, CHA – 5. [Heh: guess which edition I first played…]5. There are two basic ways to improve an ability check, other than a high ability: Advantage and a Skill Die. Statistically, Advantage has the advantage in term so benefit, but “bounded accuracy” means that results never exceed what is possible for the untrained. This is now the mechanic used for Elven senses (Spot, Listen) and for a Cleric’s knowledge of religion. A skill die gives a bonus. 6. Improving an ability associated with a skill beyond this makes high demands on character concept, costing two feats: Skill Focus (which prevents very low results ever happening) and Skill Supremacy (which grants advantage as well as a skill die, assuming you don’t already have advantage through a class or race ability and also have skill Supremacy). Both these feats are bought on a skill-for skill basis. 7. All characters begin trained in 4 skills. The only exceptions are Rogues and Trickster Clerics (who get two more). Rogues are no longer skill monkeys: they have the equivalent of one feat (Superior Skill Training) but with limited choice. For these two skills only, “x mastery” means that they get an additional +1d6 (on top of the skill die). Any character can take Superior Skill Training as a feat, and be able to apply the skill die to two more skills. 8. Because you choose a Class (as associated abilities) before you choose a Background, there is never skill redundancy: background skills are suggested, and can be built around skills granted by being a Trickster cleric or Rogue.9. The skill die improves as characters level. At levels 7, 12, and 17 players have a choice: either select another skill with which you have proficiency, or step up the die (giving on average, +1 to the roll).   10. Many features that were part of skills have become expert feats.Okay – here are some thoughts:* It’s a lot harder to become really good at a skill: to be the best animal handler takes a lot of work, and feat-heavy investment.* The improvement to the skill die: while it’s fun to step up the die, the gain is pretty small, and [EDIT] the trade off is not clear to me. * There’s a striking lack-of parallelism between the fighter and the rogue. The fighter gets three martial feats (with choice) over the course of 8 levels. The rogue gets three expert feats (as a package) at level 1. The martial feats of course will find more use in most games, but the sense of the skill-based rogue is fading. The “x Mastery” feature means that you’ll be better at two skills (only) than your peers, on average, but never enough to match a stepped-up difficulty. * Parties now become a lot less dependent on rogues for skills, and many rogue abilities can be parceled out to other characters. * I’ll admit that I really like “Break an Object” as a skill.  I hope it’s something that half-orcs automatically get advantage with. It’s nice to have a career to fall back on.To my eyes, these changes in the skill system is a big step backwards for the coolness of the Rogue. While there’s still the fun with backgrounds, there seems to be a significant weakening of the distinctive function and effectiveness that the rogue will have in play.Thanks for bearing with me on this. What do you think? Are there other features of the skill system that appeal to you, or that you think can be improved?</blockquote>

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