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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9009730" data-attributes="member: 93670">This is why I think that modify&gt;create&gt;scribe spell being off in the costs for the benefits is more important than any flavor that chain might be &quot;stealing&quot; from sorcerer..&nbsp; At wizard seven, modify spell can<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Change energy type of a spell:&nbsp; So can transmuted spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Remove verbal somatic or material components:&nbsp; So can subtle spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Remove concentration:&nbsp; Oddly Extended Spell can double duration &amp; provide advantage on the con save for concentration... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Give a spell <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/why-is-wotc-still-aiming-for-pcs-with-10-real-word-feet-of-range-w-o-vision-range-penalty-limit-rules-for-the-gm.697472/post-9008967" target="_blank">several feet </a>of table space: So can distant spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make a spell ignore your allies:&nbsp; So can careful spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. </li>
</ul>If it was just the costs being over the top for a unique but undertuned&nbsp; benefit it might be one thing, but that's not the case...&nbsp;&nbsp; When it's the costs over the top&nbsp; for the benefit when those benefits are just copying a feature the sorcerer got five levels earlier in early tier1 of play while the sorcerer is now a prepared spells caster from the entire arcane spell list there is a problem in too many parts of&nbsp; the whole to avoid the need for significant rework.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9009730, member: 93670"] This is why I think that modify>create>scribe spell being off in the costs for the benefits is more important than any flavor that chain might be "stealing" from sorcerer.. At wizard seven, modify spell can [LIST] [*]Change energy type of a spell: So can transmuted spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. [*]Remove verbal somatic or material components: So can subtle spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. [*]Remove concentration: Oddly Extended Spell can double duration & provide advantage on the con save for concentration... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. [*]Give a spell [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/why-is-wotc-still-aiming-for-pcs-with-10-real-word-feet-of-range-w-o-vision-range-penalty-limit-rules-for-the-gm.697472/post-9008967']several feet [/URL]of table space: So can distant spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. [*]Make a spell ignore your allies: So can careful spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two. [/LIST] If it was just the costs being over the top for a unique but undertuned benefit it might be one thing, but that's not the case... When it's the costs over the top for the benefit when those benefits are just copying a feature the sorcerer got five levels earlier in early tier1 of play while the sorcerer is now a prepared spells caster from the entire arcane spell list there is a problem in too many parts of the whole to avoid the need for significant rework. [/QUOTE]

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