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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3783489" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'd be willing to defend Kim Possible as good, witty, story-telling.  However, the male-female dynamic has been turned on its ear so often, that I think it hardly is worth noticing any more.  It would be more surprising in the current culture to see the reverse dynamic, and the 'kick butt girl'/'slightly buffoonish guy' is so common that it can practically be considered the traditional gender role at this point.You say that like it was a bad thing.  The connection between the shows and the toys allowed the producers to dump alot more money into the shows writing and animation than would have otherwised occurred.  It turned kid's shows into money makers, and that brought with it quality.  Granted, alot of suits never saw the connection between making a quality show and generating sales, and so you had alot of dreck along with the good.  But at the high end, it was allowing the shows to hire writing and production talent that they never would have had otherwise and those writers were fighting for high quality production values and often got them.  Licensing is good for children's show, and its not a coincidence that most of the few good children's cartoons since the 80's have been associated with licenses.Absolutely.  Silverhawks and The Go-Bots are among the worst cartoons ever.  They were insulting even to the mentality of the eight year olds at the low end of thier target audience.  Like I said, the licensing/toy connection produced an explosion in the demand for animation as everyone with any sort of line at all wanted to get in on the act, often on a shoe string budget with no clear idea of how the successful shows (Smurfs, GI Joe, etc.) had managed it.As for the supposed pain you show, I wasn't personally a fan of Muppet Babies, but they definately 'hard thier charm' and could work on several levels, CBS Storybreak often rocked, Pole Position I mentioned, and most of the rest were aimed at an under 8 audience (for that matter so was Muppet Babies) and so are often painfully limited in thier stories and overly cutesy.  But even some of those ('The Berenstein Bears') are classics of the type.  I'd put that list up against anyone's Saturday morning line up now.</blockquote>

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