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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9138813" data-attributes="member: 6801228">[USER=87792]@Neonchameleon[/USER]I haven't caught up on this thread yet, but I figured posting here was better than de-railing the sorcerer thread more than necessary. I went ahead and did some DPR calculations. Yes, the three attacks from the warlock pact make it far better than it was. No, Spirit Shroud is not the problem.For simple consistent math, I went with Sword and Board, and then added in the Eldritch blast using warlock. I made my calculations as accurate as possible, in the short time I had to work them. I also only used classes, not subclasses, because there is a degree of complexity in choosing a subclass that can skew results.I used Red text to show where resources were used.<table style='width: 100%'><tr><th>Class (level)</th><th>Damage Dice</th><th>Average calc</th><th>Average total</th><th>Bonuses</th><th></th></tr><tr><td>Fighter (1)</td><td>1d8+5</td><td>(9.5x1x0.65)+(4.5x0.05)</td><td>6.4</td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Fighter (5)</td><td>2d8+12</td><td>(10.5x2x0.65) + (4.5x2x0.05)</td><td>14.1</td><td>Action Surge = 28.2</td><td>Note: Action surge is 1/SR</td></tr><tr><td>Fighter (11)</td><td>3d8+21</td><td>(11.5x3x0.65) + (4.5x3x0.05)</td><td>23.1</td><td>Action Surge = 46.2</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Paladin (1)</td><td>1d8+3</td><td>(7.5x1x0.65) + (4.5x1x0.05)</td><td>5.1</td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Paladin (5)</td><td>2d8+12</td><td>(10.5x2x0.65) + (4.5x2x0.05)</td><td>14.1</td><td>One Divine Smite = 23.1</td><td>Note: Multiple Spell slots available, and of higher level</td></tr><tr><td>Paladin (11)</td><td>4d8+14</td><td>(16x2x0.65) + (9x2x0.05)</td><td>21.7</td><td>One Divine Smite = 35.2</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Barbarian (1)</td><td>1d8+5</td><td>(9.5x1x0.8775) + (4.5x1x0.0975)</td><td>8.775</td><td>Raging + Reckless Attack</td><td>Note: Reckless Attack increases damage the character takes, while rage may reduce it</td></tr><tr><td>Barbarian (5)</td><td>2d8+12</td><td>(10.5x2x0.8775) + (4.5x2x0.0975)</td><td>19.305</td><td>Raging + Reckless Attack</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Barbarian (11)</td><td>2d8+16</td><td>(12.5x2x0.8775) + (11x2x0.0975)</td><td>24.0825</td><td>Raging + Reckless attack + Brutal Critical</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Warlock, Blast (1)</td><td>1d10+3</td><td>(8.5x1x0.65) + (5.5x1x0.05)</td><td>5.8</td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Warlock, Blast (5)</td><td>2d10+8+2d6</td><td>(13x2x0.65) + (9x2x0.05)</td><td>17.8</td><td>W/O Hex = 12.9</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Warlock, Blast (11)</td><td>3d10+15+3d6</td><td>(14x3x0.65) + (9x3x0.05) </td><td>28.65</td><td>W/O Hex = 21.3</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Warlock, Blade (1)</td><td>1d8+3</td><td>(7.5x1x0.65) + (4.5x1x0.05)</td><td>5.1</td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Warlock, Blade (5)</td><td>2d8+8+2d6</td><td>(12x2x0.65) + (8x2x0.05) </td><td>16.4</td><td>W/O Hex = 11.5</td><td>Eldritch Smite = +18 damage</td></tr><tr><td>Warlock, Blade (11)</td><td>3d8+15+3d6+3d6</td><td>(16.5x3x0.65) + (11.5x3x0.05)</td><td>33.9</td><td>W/O Hex = 26.5</td><td>Eldritch Smite = +27 damage</td></tr></table>So, looking at this table... no, I don't think the problem is Spirit Shroud. Because I didn't even use Spirit Shroud. Just using Hex the level 11 Bladelock is only beat on their turn by turn damage by a Fighter using Action Surge, or a Paladin using a 3rd level divine smite. And if the Warlock utilizes an Eldritch Smite, they laugh in the face of any martial. And WITHOUT hex, they are still beating the Martials at their own game. I also didn't even bother to calculate Barbarians who don't rage, because they do so little damage it isn't funny. In fact, if I took away reckless, they would be doing the least amount of damage of all the martials fairly consistently. And no, none of this is really changed by changing the weapons, because at that point you need to calculate EVERYONE with different weapons. Well, I guess it would make the Blastlock change its placing, But I'm already an hour late to bed. Fair warning, it will take me a while to catch up to this thread and see any responses.</blockquote>

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