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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 6297962" data-attributes="member: 2303">I find that this is the major effect of a class system. That is, the class sets a minimum amount of competence as well as a maximum one. In 3E, even a wizard gains 1/2 BAB and 1d4 hit points - you are not allowed to spend less than that on combat ability. A cleric has 2 skill points per level - you are not allowed to spend less than that on skills. A fighter at lvl 20 has +6 Will save - you are not allowed to spend less than that on spell defenses. 4E went further on skills - every character increased all skills by one point every other level. The way we play Pathfinder, with lots of archetypes and other customization options, I feel the minimum investment is just as important as the maximum investment. In a point bye system, a wizard may spend nothing on physical attack skills, and never ever make a physical attack. This can create a problem when the GM assumes a certain baseline competence. Say a barroom brawl, where the use of any weapon or spell is overkill. I feel this is an advantage to class systems.</blockquote>