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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6299360" data-attributes="member: 17106">The thief/illusionist and fighter/thief were both awesome. 3e never really duplicated them perfectly, I agree.No, traps and SA in and of themselves aren't enough. I would have hoped that some of the PF changes would favor the rogue, such as being able to SA more things and some of the combat maneuvers, but they weren't implemented adequately.Like I said, I think people became jaded to an extent. Fortification armor is also really inappropriate (I changed it to a bonus to AC against crit confirmation rolls).But I also think that expanding SA to include flanking pushes the rogue away from that classic playstyle. Making it easier to use than backstab was looks like a raw power increase, but it pushes the player away form all that planning and thought that was needed to get a true backstab. There just isn't the sense of being rewarded for setting up the perfect kill, nor the same sense of consequence if someone does see you. I've tried to restore that, but it's a shame that it was lost in the first place.</blockquote>